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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 0:07:29 GMT
Just as an aside let;s not get into a pissing match over Southern Cross guys. Call it a preemptive strike  Just pointing out a false parallel in our boy Wolfe's assertion WRT Palladium's aversion to PDFs. It's one thing to refuse to produce a product that decades of evidence clearly indicates will not sell... such as Southern Cross merchandise... and quite another to just flatly insist that a standard that has endured for over a decade and has had an entire industry has been built around it is "just a fad", especially when most of your competitors are already on board. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 0:19:21 GMT
Bu the last mention was more of a Tommy Yune assertion in general He didn't mention The Masters saga. I think it is a reasonable assertion to make that Tommy is like Kevin in that if something wasn't his idea he isn't likely to be in support of it.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 0:35:27 GMT
Bu the last mention was more of a Tommy Yune assertion in general He didn't mention The Masters saga. I think it is a reasonable assertion to make that Tommy is like Kevin in that if something wasn't his idea he isn't likely to be in support of it. Yes, but it's painfully obvious Harmony Gold's refusal to release any Masters Saga merchandise is what he meant. Ordinarily, HG would leap on any opportunity for profit... that's the one thing HG has said "pass" to in recent memory. It's just the usual fashion of the bitter malcontent Robotech fans to assume that Tommy is behind any decision they see as unfavorable... regardless of its actual origin. Where the refusal to make masters saga merch is concerned, the originating authority is actually Toynami, as Tom Bateman revealed. Harmony Gold and Toynami have a sound business case and decades of evidence supporting their refusal to make Masters Saga merchandise... Kevin, on the other hand, is trying to argue against the evidence and an emerging industry trend. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 0:46:04 GMT
I agree with what you are saying in general and I am someone who actually thinks the masters saga has some redeeming qualities in it at least as part of Robotech BUT (bet you saw that coming) even if it was what his motivation ns saying so is, he didn't actually say that is all. Most people that are in charge of things are in charge by and large because they are supposed to be good at what they do. It would not surprise me at all if such an assertion is indeed applicable to Tommy as it is applicable to many people in similar positions with other companies.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 8, 2013 1:06:59 GMT
Alex has posted that they believe ebooks and stuff are a fad. *Twitch* That they can't tell if it'd be worth it to get into such things. *Twitch twitch* This was a lot time back. Still. I think it's just their technophobia and lack of first hand knowledge. Though how you could run a BOOK company and not own a kindle or something by now is beyond me. We've got 4. 3 Kindle Fires, including the HDX I got my wife for Xmas, and one older model, pre-fire. I have yet to own a kindle or any other type of e-reader. (not including the Laptop which I owned Pre-pdf era) Making assumptions that everyone has to adopt a certain level of tech by a certain point shows a certain degree of arrogance and just a hint of ignorance imo. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 1:15:10 GMT
Most people that are in charge of things are in charge by and large because they are supposed to be good at what they do. It would not surprise me at all if such an assertion is indeed applicable to Tommy as it is applicable to many people in similar positions with other companies. 'cept, unlike Kevin at Palladium, who can refuse to release things in PDF format because he is THE BOSS, Tommy Yune has almost no actual authority to do anything at Harmony Gold. He has pretty much zero actual control over the franchise, with his only actual authority being over the specific contents of new works. He has no ability to decide whether or not to make a series or comic or toy... all those decisions occur over his head, and are made by the top management who hold the purse strings. He and his fellow RT staffers had to make a twitter account just to get around all of the red tape they have to wade through just to post a news article on Robotech.com. Would Tommy do something similar if he actually had the authority to piss without first needing permission forms (in triplicate) from his boss and from legal? I doubt it... he's the poor sap forever on the receiving end of "Permission denied". It's just not a fair comparison. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 1:18:09 GMT
Agreed but he WOULD be the guy that has to decide whether or not to take an idea to his bosses in order to get denied.  In the end I think we can all agree that Kevin needs to get off the pot and start selling PDFs of CURRENT material that wasn't just part of a special offer  |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 1:21:10 GMT
Alex has posted that they believe ebooks and stuff are a fad. *Twitch* That they can't tell if it'd be worth it to get into such things. *Twitch twitch* This was a lot time back. Still. I think it's just their technophobia and lack of first hand knowledge. Though how you could run a BOOK company and not own a kindle or something by now is beyond me. We've got 4. 3 Kindle Fires, including the HDX I got my wife for Xmas, and one older model, pre-fire. I have yet to own a kindle or any other type of e-reader. (not including the Laptop which I owned Pre-pdf era) Making assumptions that everyone has to adopt a certain level of tech by a certain point shows a certain degree of arrogance and just a hint of ignorance imo. Do you own and run a book company Damian? Are you a professional writer? Do you file taxes as one and live off the written word? |
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 1:21:26 GMT
Agreed but he WOULD be the guy that has to decide whether or not to take an idea to his bosses in order to get denied. In the end I think we can all agree that Kevin needs to get off the pot and start selling PDFs of CURRENT material that wasn't just part of a special offer That's debateable... as there is a certain amount of precedent for his coworkers also being equally able to present ideas to the few guys who actually make decisions. Still... as Kevin is the highest court in the company he owns, there really isn't any viable excuse for his refusal to adopt PDF format in his new releases. It's a proven technology that his competition has already been exploiting. |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 8, 2013 1:38:36 GMT
I have yet to own a kindle or any other type of e-reader. (not including the Laptop which I owned Pre-pdf era) Making assumptions that everyone has to adopt a certain level of tech by a certain point shows a certain degree of arrogance and just a hint of ignorance imo. Do you own and run a book company Damian? Are you a professional writer? Do you file taxes as one and live off the written word? And why would that make any difference? I am certain that Kevin and company are not alone in being late adopters of the tech. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 1:45:58 GMT
Being a professional writer is not necessarily a reason to require they have an e reader. Or a book company. not every book produced gets an e copy that I am aware. Many do but certainly not all.
Either way though I think we can all agree it is time for them to get off the pot regardless.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 2:28:07 GMT
It circles back around to hurting only themselves. Like their flat out refusal and resistance to use digital plublishing tools and working up the books on wax boards for years and years after everyone else adopted the industry standard.
If you're a company and you refuse to innovate with the times, refuse to embrace tech that makes your job easier and makes you more money with less effort and less cost, that's just silly.
Making an 'assumption' that a frigging book company would be in the know about Ereaders/tablets, which has totally revised the book industry and are the hottest sellers of tech for years now, is not arrogant. Refusing to embrace such a thing is sillyness at best and flat out base stubbornness egotistical stupidity at worst.
Yes, As a simple geek and RPG player, and avid reader, it's beyond me how they couldn't own a Kindle or Ereader by now and how they can make statements like "Ereaders and ebooks are just a passing fad"
Do some people still know how to use the telegraph? Sure. We don't use them by and large any more. We use the phone or email. Do some people know how to ride horses? Sure. We seldom saddle up to ride to the store any more. We use the car or the bus or the subway. Do some people still have typewriters? Or worse, write long hand? Sure, but more people use computers and word programs. Do some people still have black and white TVs? I'm sure, but most have color ones and cable. Do some people still use an abacus? Sure, but most use calculators. Are they still inscribing books on stone tabliets? Copying the books by hand, like the bible? Or setting type on a printing press one letter at a time? Some might, but mostly you see things typed on a computer and printed out.
Physical books are far from 'Dead' but anyone taking an honest look at Ereaders and Ebooks and can't see that innovation is happening is blind. You can get a Kindle paperwhite for $50, it can hold thousands and thousands of books in one 'item' the size of a paperback.
We're not going to go back to the telegraph (Baring apocolypse). We're not going to go back to inscribing stories on stone tablets and selling huge stacks of stone tablets in stores. Ereaders and ebooks are not a fad.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 2:38:24 GMT
Then block him.It should be an option.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 8, 2013 2:43:50 GMT
Then block him.It should be an option. if its one you can find, please tell me. he went after me, and it is bullshit to warn me when he is the one who started this shit. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 2:51:59 GMT
I am not going to debate your warning here. You know why you were warned. Starting anything is not reason to insult him the way you did.
moving on....
Why is it people are even STILL waiting for the PDF? Could they NOT take time out of their apparently stupidly hectic schedule to email the damn things? I know they apparently felt it was more important to ship out the books people paid more money for over the pDFs but now it's been delayed even more while people have gotten their Hardcovers in hand. I mean I d not care who paid more, there is ZERO justification for this delay in emailing the PDFs out.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 8, 2013 2:54:40 GMT
Bu the last mention was more of a Tommy Yune assertion in general He didn't mention The Masters saga. I think it is a reasonable assertion to make that Tommy is like Kevin in that if something wasn't his idea he isn't likely to be in support of it. When I mentioend TY, it was in reference to the amount of times Tom Bateman would talk about bringing up Idea in staff meeting, and TY and his brother Steve would both shoot the Idea down. updated to the website were one of his idea, web comics, updates to the online series bible... all were killed... Any Idea that originate with the Yune Brothers was not gonna make any head way. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 2:57:22 GMT
It would certainly point to a similar behaviour as Kevin in that regard.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 8, 2013 3:02:09 GMT
It would certainly point to a similar behaviour as Kevin in that regard. His refusal to embrace PDf's when their is more than enough supportive evidence to show it can be a profitable venture. all his refusal is doing it creating the very "Black market" he uses as an excuse for not doing it. Kevin initially refused the guy form Paulson games who brought completed Destroid models he had worked on... in fact I think the only reason Kevin even embraced the RRT minis was to prevent someone else from getting involved. as Paulson had said he was contacting HG directly on one of his blog pages... |
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 3:04:53 GMT
Why is it people are even STILL waiting for the PDF? Could they NOT take time out of their apparently stupidly hectic schedule to email the damn things? At the risk of voicing a potentially unpopular opinion... it might be that they're experiencing network issues. A number of web hosts have been having problems over the past few days, partly due to line damage from the winter storms across the country, and also because of a spate of recent hacker attacks. They may also be having mail server issues if the PDF file is larger than the maximum allowed attachment size. Or if they simply are unsure of how to proceed with the mass distribution using a new technology they aren't used to. They ARE a bit behind the learning curve with this stuff... I know they apparently felt it was more important to ship out the books people paid more money for over the pDFs but now it's been delayed even more while people have gotten their Hardcovers in hand. I mean I d not care who paid more, there is ZERO justification for this delay in emailing the PDFs out. True... this could also be a botched attempt to do a simutaneous release of physical and digital versions of the same product. The video game industry has run into similar complaints with people who bought downloads of a game not being allowed to run the software until it became available on the street date. (Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate a little... but there is a possibility, however slight, that this is not their fault for once. Let's put off a call to the hangman until we know what went wrong...) |
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 3:06:33 GMT
It would certainly point to a similar behaviour as Kevin in that regard. It would remiss of me not to point out that the previously voiced complaint has a very simple explanation that can be summed up as "management intransigence"... one that almost every HG staffer has given voice to in recent years. Kevin is the master of his domain and can be an obstructive ass should he feel a need to be... Tommy and Steve have to obey the policies set by their employers. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 3:10:56 GMT
That may be but to not even take them forward and just shoot them down is still poor action on their part. At least they should have taken the ideas and let them get legitimately shot down regardless of if they knew they would or not. That way it isn't on them that ideas were not even forwarded.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 3:19:30 GMT
That may be but to not even take them forward and just shoot them down is still poor action on their part. At least they should have taken the ideas and let them get legitimately shot down regardless of if they knew they would or not. That way it isn't on them that ideas were not even forwarded. Eh... if the brothers Yune had already been told on no uncertain terms that certain types of projects were all kinds of not gonna happen, they wouldn't really gain anything by harassing their bosses about it. From the talks I've had with HG staffers, the production of new material is almost on a "don't call us, we'll call you" basis with the management. They only get to explore new ideas after management has said OK... and they have made no secret that anything that does not provide a guaranteed and immediate return is right out. With HG banking on WB for its future hopes, it seems like ANYTHING new is preemptively denied. Kevin, on the other hand, is the master of his domain and can do (or not do) whatever strikes his fancy with properties he owns... which means that the buck stops at his desk when it comes to an intransigent management. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 3:20:56 GMT
True enough. Doesn't mean we have to like it and stop bitching about it though LOL
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 3:24:57 GMT
True enough. Doesn't mean we have to like it and stop bitching about it though LOL True! Though being on the supply side of corporate evil, my usual habit is to not blame the middleman whose only job is relaying the bad news. If Palladium's being intransigent, Kevin's the object of your ire. If it's Harmony Gold, Frankie boy might be a good place to start. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 3:33:20 GMT
And if they are having network issues due to the storm then ok there is ONE justifiable explanation for them not being out yet. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 5:13:10 GMT
I am not going to debate your warning here. You know why you were warned. Starting anything is not reason to insult him the way you did. moving on.... Why is it people are even STILL waiting for the PDF? Could they NOT take time out of their apparently stupidly hectic schedule to email the damn things? I know they apparently felt it was more important to ship out the books people paid more money for over the pDFs but now it's been delayed even more while people have gotten their Hardcovers in hand. I mean I d not care who paid more, there is ZERO justification for this delay in emailing the PDFs out. People have received hard cover printer's proofs via Xmas Grab bag... and the PDF's still haven't gone out. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 5:23:56 GMT
And if they are having network issues due to the storm then ok there is ONE justifiable explanation for them not being out yet. I don't buy it. If you read the previous week's update close, they only lost power for one night. after hours when people were sitting around and talking as they signed books. No big deal. It came back the next day. They claimed their internet was down for a few days. Which to be honest, shouldn't have stopped them either, should they have wanted to send the PDF's out then. There's other computers that you could use to do such a thing. It's not like "The computer at the Palladium warehouse" is ARCHIE. You could do it from a home computer or a library computer if you needed to. Even that was about two weeks ago. I live in the same state as Palladium. we have a sheet of ice over everything. MI only shuts down for weather rarely. And I mean Rarely. they put the kids on the playground till it goes below zero. Not freezing. Freezing is at 32. They will send home angry notes to parents if you don't pack coats and snow pants because they put the kids out on the playground till it's -1 outside. Even after the big huge winter storm. We had kids home for one day. Even then people muttered that it wasn't really necessary. I don't buy it that their net is down and they can't possibly send the things out. There's a huge difference between 'Can't' and 'won't.' or 'haven't bothered'. Pause for a moment and think about the past press releases. They have blamed absolutely everything for delayed books. Everything from common colds, to death's of pals, to deaths' of dead pal's girlfriends, to the flu, to bloody yard sales and the building of shelves. If their net was down to the point they couldn't send the pdfs they'd have claimed it as the reason. They have no problems posting on Facebook or putting up murmers and sending out the mass mailings of those. |
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Post by Lupala on Dec 8, 2013 6:08:27 GMT
From what I have seen delays, and excuses are part for the course. I think maybe we should skip the publishing design course, and just send Kevin to a good time management course!
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2013 6:08:47 GMT
The reason I suggested it might be a network issue is that I live like 20min from Palladium and almost everyone I've spoken to over the last few days has had trouble with their internet service. The storm might be south of us... but so are a lot of the server assets belonging to the major ISPs serving this area.
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 8, 2013 21:57:04 GMT
The reason I suggested it might be a network issue is that I live like 20min from Palladium and almost everyone I've spoken to over the last few days has had trouble with their internet service. The storm might be south of us... but so are a lot of the server assets belonging to the major ISPs serving this area. bullshit. I live in Monroe no internet problems for us at all. |
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