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Post by ninjabunny on Nov 28, 2013 22:30:42 GMT
Has been fucking annoying!!
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 29, 2013 1:35:48 GMT
I have no doubt. I am still trying to wrap my head around the purposeful holdup of the PDF in order for the hardcover purchasers to get their copies in the mail....
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Post by juce734 on Nov 29, 2013 4:00:30 GMT
It certainly doesn't make a whole lot of sense to wait to release a PDF but whatever.
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Post by calto40k on Nov 29, 2013 5:11:04 GMT
Seems like it wasn't a good idea to do it that way
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Post by joshuagoliath on Nov 29, 2013 6:51:42 GMT
So, for my first post, I'll channel the PB Boards..
Calto! How dare you suggest that Kevin the Almighty may have made a bad business decision! We all know that it's not HIS fault! Obviously, if you think there's been a mistake made, YOU need to change your way of thinking. And if you don't like it, take your money elsewhere!!
/channeling
You know, now that I think about it, PB may be a good study of the US Government....
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Post by damianmagecraft on Nov 29, 2013 7:53:32 GMT
I will say again...
while we may disagree with the choices made by the company we do not know what factors played in the decisions.
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 29, 2013 13:12:15 GMT
Damian is right in that we don't know the factors behind it BUT it is certainly a decision that makes you go WHAT THE FUCK?
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 29, 2013 13:15:29 GMT
Josh - while criticism is a good thing discuss, and font take this the wrong way but, let's not try to get to hyperbolic about Kevin and palladium ok? That's usually what leads to vitriol being spit back and forth and while I am critical of them myself, I'd like to see us all do so in a constructive way. Kevin is Kevin. We all know this so things like channeling a "defender" really isn't needed don't you think?  |
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jorel
New Member
Posts: 19 
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Post by jorel on Nov 29, 2013 13:49:26 GMT
They are being jerks by withholding that pdf
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 29, 2013 15:31:37 GMT
I wouldn't go that far withot more info but like I said it's certainly WTF?
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Post by joshuagoliath on Nov 29, 2013 17:49:00 GMT
I didn't mean it as for actually veing critical. More of a satire on how the PB boards would have responded. I'll be more careful in how I word things.
I agree, we don't know what is going on behind the scenes. However, from an outside view, it is a WTF?!
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jorel
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by jorel on Nov 29, 2013 18:30:23 GMT
We know it has been done because they told us it was weeks ago when Wayne worked on it. They are withholding it, because they told us they would, not bacause of any real need to do it. Because of some fear of piracy or need for the print version to get to people who didn't invest in it.
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Post by calto40k on Nov 29, 2013 20:39:53 GMT
Yeah I get where Josh is coming from with the sarcasm so all good jaymz.... Also if they wanted to hold the pdf back like this they should have held back the soft cover so none of the products were had before the MIs
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Post by calto40k on Nov 29, 2013 20:41:06 GMT
and I myself would have been cool with everyone waiting for the book until all copies were able to go out if that was the original plan.
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 29, 2013 21:51:22 GMT
That wasn't original plan though iirc. Originally it was regular product ships, about two weeks later the PDFs the about two weeks after that the hardcovers. Why the change now is the wtf? For me
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Post by joshuagoliath on Nov 29, 2013 22:41:41 GMT
Maybe it has something to do with the disdain for PDFs? Or maybe, it's to help increase the demand for the regular product...
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Post by writersblock on Nov 30, 2013 0:48:12 GMT
Seems to me it is clearly an attempt to get as much money as possible out of it before the remotest chance of the book ending up free on the Net can occur. Nothing more, nothing less.
Totally understandable in this day of internet transmission of copyrighted work, but if that is your worry don't make the PDF even available until like two months after the release date or some thing like that. Don't take people's money and then expect them to wait forever because you are nervous about sales being affected.
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 30, 2013 1:10:15 GMT
That's just it. I've seen the Lemuria PDF. It is watermarked. Unless there is a way to remove the watermark of the person than originally purchased it, then they have exactly who shared it for the masses and can go after them for doing so.
I really see no reason to make PDF purchases wait an extra week while they shipped out all the hardcover orders.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Nov 30, 2013 3:07:46 GMT
I think they're withholding the PDF because they don't like PDFs. On the official forums they (Mostly Alex posting for them) Has been incredibly critical of PDF's and electronic format. Up to and specifically stating that they think ebooks and PDF's and such are a fad that will pass. Even after being shown how many kindles and other Ereaders, Ipads and other tablets have been sold, they referenced one obscure article from years ago where one guy said he didn't think it'd last.
They collectively are technophobic. It took them years and years and years to stop posting up their books the old way. It was well into the 2000s when they finally changed to digital layouts, and I suspect that had nothing to do with what they wanted, but the printers refusing to take the old cut and laid out books the old way. (No proof of that, but my suspicions.)
They had a website they didn't update till what? Last year? it'd been the same since the 90s. They're only on facebook because we as fans shamed them and busted them when they claimed it'd take one guy 3 weeks 9-5 to make a Facebook page and one guy on the forums made an unofficial one, in 15 minutes, while helping his son put together some legos.
They say they do it, to prevent people from pirating their books, but it's been shown time and again you can get 96% of their catalog online already if you WANT to steal them. People want to pay for them. So that 'excuse' is crap.
They've not only 'not' embraced the digital age. They go out of their way to do everything they can to resist it.
I personally think they're with holding the PDF's out of a bit of spite. They don't like them. They don't want to do them. They add them on to the kickstarter things because they 'know' that it's stupid to turn away money, so they'll take it, but it's more or less under protest. They don't want to acknowledge they're wrong about PDFs. So they put them off. Down play them. Largely ignore them and try and make them the least attractive option.
At this point, it's easier to just order the soft cover from them and get it in a few days. Look how long the people that paid to crowd-source this thing have had to wait. The PDF buyers most of all. The digital file was ready before any of the books were printed. Even if they didn't have book marks (Which I'm not sure they'll have in the end anyway).
Withholding the PDF is just a move out of spite to try and sour people on the PDFs to start with, so they can justify not doing them any more
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 30, 2013 3:14:19 GMT
*raises hand* that was me that did the facebook group.......
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jorel
New Member
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Post by jorel on Nov 30, 2013 3:19:12 GMT
I love this place already.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Nov 30, 2013 3:28:33 GMT
*raises hand* that was me that did the facebook group....... Credit gladly given to you, sir. |
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 30, 2013 3:30:45 GMT
I just regret the fallout from it.
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Post by Lupala on Nov 30, 2013 4:42:50 GMT
It's palladium....fallout happens. I've never actually been a member of the board....but WB has shown me many a post. Fallout happens. It really seems like no matter what is done, it isn't right and the shit hits the fan....I never had the patience for that sort of childishness.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160
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Post by colonel wolfe on Nov 30, 2013 5:17:51 GMT
IDK, Maybe its just that Onyx path dose it better... but they sent the PDf's of the books I pledged on as soon as they were ready and before they are generally available in the drive-thru store.
Sure some people have been able to purchase POD versions of the books before Deluxe backers have gotten their books, but were getting an awesome lookng book that is well worth the wait... I was unimpressed with Lemuria's deluxe edition...
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Post by Sci-Fi on Nov 30, 2013 6:39:52 GMT
Onyx fixed the "POD before Backers" Thing after that mistake happened too.
They give almost weekly updates as to progress.
They have stretch goals and listen to the people that pledge as well. During the Changing breeds kickstarter, some of the ideas that I put forth were actually incorporated into the book.
Good stuff.
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 30, 2013 13:52:50 GMT
It's palladium....fallout happens. I've never actually been a member of the board....but WB has shown me many a post. Fallout happens. It really seems like no matter what is done, it isn't right and the shit hits the fan....I never had the patience for that sort of childishness. Oh I know but this time around it was a bit worse than usual. Kevin singled me out and inferred I had said/was convinced of something I never did or was. It was others. Also some of the "defenders" took my actions to create "The Un-Official Fans of Palladium Books" group as an affront to Palladium which it never was. In fact I had several people who were defenders who PMed me telling me how well I had handled myself throughout it all amongst the ridiculousness that was being slung around. The only reason I actually did was A ) to show it wasn't as hard as Kevin and Palladium seemed to think it was (honestly I have no clue if they knew it was that easy or not and wasn't the point) and B ) to shut up the defenders who kept saying "nuh-uh Kevin is right it takes too long". For the record it was 30 minutes while assembling a Lego kit for my son (it was not long after his birthday and hadn't had time to do it sooner) not 15 and I did spend about another 30 minutes or so total over the next couple of days ironing out the bugs. I was even in conversation with Alex about using Book Cover images and linking back to the Palladium online catalogue as way to get people to their site when BAM 3 days later their Official Page was up and running. All I wanted was for their to be a presence. I didn't care that I was going to be that presence until they were able to so themselves. I did resent getting thrown under the bus to some degree by Kevin though. |
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 30, 2013 13:56:02 GMT
Seems to me it is clearly an attempt to get as much money as possible out of it before the remotest chance of the book ending up free on the Net can occur. Nothing more, nothing less. Totally understandable in this day of internet transmission of copyrighted work, but if that is your worry don't make the PDF even available until like two months after the release date or some thing like that. Don't take people's money and then expect them to wait forever because you are nervous about sales being affected. I've been saying for quite a while now that they should wait 6 months after releasing a new book THEN release a PDF for the masses. That way the initial demand will have died off and you will get repeat purchases from people who quite likely already have the dead tree version but want the portable version too. It also will not negatively affect your dead tree version sales that way and you won't lose sales when a book is out of print for any length of time. Now PDFs are not any kind of major winfall to be sure BUT they are at least a revenue stream they don't currently have and it is my opinion that PDFs would at least give a small stream of revenue between major book releases. |
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160
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Post by colonel wolfe on Nov 30, 2013 16:42:16 GMT
Waiting to release the PDF only give incentives for them to end up as pirated pdf's on the internet.
They should release the PDF at the same time as the paperback. Heck, even going to POD thru drive-thru would be awesome... to keep books perpetually in print.
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Post by Jaymz on Nov 30, 2013 16:47:51 GMT
Waiting to release the PDF only give incentives for them to end up as pirated pdf's on the internet. They should release the PDF at the same time as the paperback. Heck, even going to POD thru drive-thru would be awesome... to keep books perpetually in print. Yeah POD would be an excellent option after the first print run and would lessen their overhead in keeping books stocked in a warehouse. |
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