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Post by Jaymz on Jan 19, 2014 1:43:57 GMT
then i would argue the perfect power loop is not applicable to those.
You may have noticed Wookieepedia isnt 100% accurate at times either.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 19, 2014 8:05:58 GMT
The "mass produced", IIRC, were basically an assembly line of people making them. While that allows "functional" lightsabers, the "ideal" method is each force-user crafting their own.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 19, 2014 8:16:34 GMT
Oh, and if the costs has you worried, you can easily have them run several on-planet missions for a while (becoming a team), then have them acquire a ship as either theirs, or a loan, or stolen (there are ways to change the registry ID), or any number of other ways. Or hell, they may hire out a ship.
Whatever you decide in way of a ship, I HIGHLY recommend that you use one that's large enough for the group plus two or three more people.
NPC pilot, that way the entire group can be involved with whatever, but there's still a pilot for the ship (and to go with that, it also gives you an NPC that the group wants to keep around). The space gives you a spot for the pilot (s/he won't spend ALL their time in the cockpit after all), as well as if they pick up anyone else, without making it too cramped.
Some versions of the game give you guidelines for designing/building your own custom ship. It's POSSIBLE, but REALLY expensive.
For fighters, I suggest something like the Ugly. It's basically a fighter made out of pieces from multiple ships that couldn't be repaired. So it could have the cockpit from an A-wing, a TIE side panel on one side, X foils on the other side.. etc
*A group I was in a LONG time ago kidnapped a pilot and hijacked his ship, then ended up turning him to our side...
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 19, 2014 13:40:37 GMT
then i would argue the perfect power loop is not applicable to those. You may have noticed Wookieepedia isnt 100% accurate at times either. Therein lies another wrinkle... there's no indication that these mass-produced lightsabers were in any way substandard compared to the ones made by Luke's more advanced Jedi trainees. The "mass produced", IIRC, were basically an assembly line of people making them. While that allows "functional" lightsabers, the "ideal" method is each force-user crafting their own. Who? I've consulted one of my buddies about this series of books, and they were mass-producing lightsabers for a student body of Dark Jedi, but who was making them if none of the students were advanced enough to make their own? The only Force adepts present were one Dark Jedi and a bunch of witches who don't use lightsabers anyway. Oh, and if the costs has you worried, you can easily have them run several on-planet missions for a while (becoming a team), then have them acquire a ship as either theirs, or a loan, or stolen (there are ways to change the registry ID), or any number of other ways. Or hell, they may hire out a ship. All possible... I still have only the vaguest idea of where I want the story to go. "Away from anywhere that the movies focused on" is a fairly strong desire. Whatever you decide in way of a ship, I HIGHLY recommend that you use one that's large enough for the group plus two or three more people. Yeah, to that end I've been looking at ships in my obsolete copy of the Essential Guide... mostly ships like bulk cargo haulers and other larger craft, since my group will likely end up being four or five people. I like the look of this YV-666 thing, because it's large enough to have a small excursion bay with a shuttle. Or maybe the Dynamic-class light freighter, which looks like it has room for a crew of about six... I think the Dynamic-class may be my best bet, since it's kind of a running joke that my players NEVER get anything nice to start, and a rundown, obsolete freighter sounds right up their alley. For fighters, I suggest something like the Ugly. It's basically a fighter made out of pieces from multiple ships that couldn't be repaired. So it could have the cockpit from an A-wing, a TIE side panel on one side, X foils on the other side.. etc |
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 19, 2014 18:29:15 GMT
Also remember that they won't necessarily be limited to one specific ship. They could always hire one on a case by case basis (and could lead to plenty of adventures that way).
Also, I'd like to recommend a few D6 books. Even if you're not using that system, they have useful stuff, even if you have to do a little work to convert it. And yes, I'm a big fan of droids for all of those "support" roles- The Medic, the cargo-loader, the guards, etc etc. Prevents PCs from having to put a few skills here and there, where they won't be experts, but cuts down on recurring costs (no salaries to pay).
"Galladinium's Fantastic Technology" (I'm a fan of the Personal Chef Droid and the Litigation Droid, and the Aqualish Bio-light panel, and quite a few other things)
"Cracken's Rebel Field Guide" has some nice toys in it. Not my fave book, but, can be useful
Cynabar's Fantastic Technology: Droids" has some great stuff. It gives a paragraph on all the main droid manufacturers. It lists some unique sites. The section on Designing, Upgrading, and Customizing Droids is particularly useful. Droid attachments and parts is a nice bit. And then there are some droid examples in the back.
"Platt's Smugglers Guide" has some useful tools as well as tips and info. While it says "Smugglers", a lot is JUST as useful for someone who is say, working secretly against the Empire. Or even just some standard Haulers.
"Gundark's Fantastic Technology: Personal Gear" has a HUGE range of personal-carry items, from must-haves to "I can afford it so why not" items.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 19, 2014 20:30:07 GMT
then i would argue the perfect power loop is not applicable to those. You may have noticed Wookieepedia isnt 100% accurate at times either. Therein lies another wrinkle... there's no indication that these mass-produced lightsabers were in any way substandard compared to the ones made by Luke's more advanced Jedi trainees. Well one thing, it appears that you're reading with a very critical eye there Mike. It's SciFi... actually to be more accurate, Star Wars is "Space-opera" but that's lost on alot of people and they file it as Sci fi or Sci fantasy. Secondly, as already pointed out, the three books we pointed you to were done 'early on' in the EU stuff. Details were not quite so nailed down just then and writers were a bit more lose in their interpretations. The light sabers you mention are only spoken of like once, in 100s of Star Wars books and the 'mass production' is pretty much just a mistake. There have been instance after instance after instance of the construction of Light sabers after that, heck, even books about Lightsabers themselves. It's pretty much universally agreed that it's the force user embeuing the crystal and attuning it that lets the thing work. Jedi have constructed them out of spare parts some times, Corran made one from a speeder bike grip once, but the crystal infused with the force and what not is the 'big part'. The jedi preferred 'natural crystals" and used them when they could, but not always. Luke for instance finds design scamatics in Obi-Wan's house on Tanttoine that allowed for using a synthhetic crystal baked in a special klien. The Sith use synthetics too. When luke lost his first light saber when vader cuts off his hand in cloud city, he constructs his second. (Which was the green one. Which was green so it'd show up in the scene on the sail barge against a blue sky.) This is allllllllllll before you get into the "Green/blue&Red(and one purple) Vs the rain bow of colors you see in the EU debate. In the movies the Jedi used green and blue, the sith red. Mace, got an exception for a purple one because Sam Jackson likes purple. In the EU you get everything from bronze to fusha to yellow and everything inbeteen. (And that's a huge debate among SW fans.) But yeah the 'mass produced' light sabers was a blip that is pretty much ignored because it is not in line with allllll the rest of the lore and fluff about light sabers other than that one little mention. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 19, 2014 21:00:48 GMT
Not to mention.......Kevin J Anderson is a twit of writer and his books are rife with inconsistencies. Again these books are from the early production time frame. After he wrote those along with Darksaber and The jedi Academy books I do not think there was much else. Most of his stuff was not very well liked for a variety of reasons.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 19, 2014 22:14:19 GMT
Welcome to the world of Star Wars.
If it makes you feel any better. It's not just you. To complicate matters Star Wars doesn't just have 'Canon' and 'non canon' stuff.
There's many levels of Canon. Some more canonical than others.
Yes. Some stuff is considered 'more' canon in the SW universe than others. There's like 5tiers. lol. But you're not that deep in yet.
(Not that this would make sense just yet, but there is
G-Canon
T-Canon
C-Canon
S-Canon
N-Canon.
G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.
T-canon refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the upcoming Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.
C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.
S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I–III.
And that's not as deep as it goes. lol.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 20, 2014 0:02:36 GMT
And yet it is STILL more organized than Star Trek in most respects LOL
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 20, 2014 0:05:13 GMT
The HELL YOU SAY! Star Trek was FINE until Abrams came along... (granted, our movies were getting crappy, but I'll just smile and point at Episodes 1&2)
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 20, 2014 1:20:12 GMT
I'll take Ep 1 and 2 over ST TMP and TFF LOL And ST is rife with issues beyond the various inconsistencies in the TV series' and movies. SW is infinitely more cohesive in its various levels canonicity over ST and this was told me by several someone who primary fanship is to ST  |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 20, 2014 1:42:30 GMT
Well one thing, it appears that you're reading with a very critical eye there Mike. It's SciFi... actually to be more accurate, Star Wars is "Space-opera" but that's lost on alot of people and they file it as Sci fi or Sci fantasy. Oh, believe you me... I understand the "space opera" just fine. The problem lies in that, while Mr. Lucas may have filmed a space opera... Mr. Zahn didn't write one. Zahn is writing some fairly standard, but not unengaging, straight science fiction. (But yes, I read EVERYTHING with a very critical eye... so please don't think I'm beating up on Star Wars here. I'm deliberately reading this stuff with a careful eye for detail, because I want to have a firm grasp of the setting for the game my players want... so naturally I'm going to notice contradictions and problems more readily than I otherwise would.) Not to mention.......Kevin J Anderson is a twit of writer and his books are rife with inconsistencies. Again these books are from the early production time frame. After he wrote those along with Darksaber and The jedi Academy books I do not think there was much else. Most of his stuff was not very well liked for a variety of reasons. Eh... doesn't every franchise that becomes a shared universe ultimately end up with at least one of "those guys"? Among the Warhammer 40,000 writers, we've got C.S. Goto on the novelizations side of things and Matt Ward on the codex fluff. Robotech has at least four or five bad writers who completely failed to have any grasp of the setting or story now... Carl Macek, Tommy Yune, Kevin Siembeida, Jason Marker, and Irving Jackson... plus whoever's doing Marines. And yet it is STILL more organized than Star Trek in most respects LOL Speaking of someone who has, if anything, MORE antipathy for Star Trek than Star Wars... that's not actually accurate. Paramount is kind of cheating on that front though, because their canon policy is that only what's in the series counts. Absolutely everything else, from the technical manuals to the comic books to the godawful novelizations and video games, is 100% emphatically non-canon. The only thing in the series that is not considered unimpeachable canon is the Star Trek: Voyager episode "Threshold", which was SO bad and violated so many rules of the setting that Paramount's writers summarily decanonized it by having the show's dialogue in later episodes clearly state that it NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED. (That policy means that Star Trek barely counts as a shared universe at all, since only direct Paramount-produced material is considered official.) J.J. Abrams' Star Trek movies take place in an alternate reality brought about by actions in the prime continuity, so that's not a conflict either. (As a side note, Paramount's canon policy was originally much more inclusive... but that changed after Roddenberry had a falling out with the author of the first technical manuals.) I'll take Ep 1 and 2 over ST TMP and TFF LOL And ST is rife with issues beyond the various inconsistencies in the TV series' and movies. SW is infinitely more cohesive in its various levels canonicity over ST and this was told me by several someone who primary fanship is to ST Bah, I'll take Ricardo Montalbán and William Shatner's scenery-chewing contest in Wrath of Khan over the hilarious racial stereotypes and mannequin-like actors from Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones... if only because the memes are funnier. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 20, 2014 1:49:34 GMT
So... anyway... to elaborate on where I'm going with the ships thing.
The basic premise I'm looking at, since my players mainly want to be Jedi, is that of a group of not-so-green trainees from the Jedi school circa 19 ABY go rogue after some incident (I remain undecided as to whether it should be some kind of lethal training accident or a falling out with the instructors there) and "borrow" a light freighter that one of the Knight-instructors at the school was refurbishing to serve as his personal transport and run out on the school to seek adventure or avoid capture.
I figure that way, they're relatively on their own, and their ship is kind of a rundown nightmare that'll force them to think creatively instead of going in lightsabers swinging.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 20, 2014 2:22:45 GMT
That actually sounds pretty good Mike.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 20, 2014 3:27:43 GMT
Sounds like a good plan. Something to consider though- who's going to be the pilot? If none of the PCs decide to take a pilot skill, you're going to need SOMEBODY to fly it.
Also, even with an astrogation computer, you still need astrogation skills to be able to plot courses properly.
Just warning you ahead of time so you can plan!
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 20, 2014 4:10:06 GMT
Damn the prequels damn all three!
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 21, 2014 2:16:02 GMT
Sounds like a good plan. Something to consider though- who's going to be the pilot? If none of the PCs decide to take a pilot skill, you're going to need SOMEBODY to fly it. Also, even with an astrogation computer, you still need astrogation skills to be able to plot courses properly. Just warning you ahead of time so you can plan! True... though as the movies and novels seem to indicate that practically anybody can muddle through the task of piloting a starship in a rudimentary fashion with little-to-no formal training, I didn't really see it as a problem. I figure I'd let one or two of 'em take a piloting skill set at a basic or middlin' level to reflect that the Jedi Master they're assigned to used 'em as a chauffeur from time to time. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 21, 2014 3:09:53 GMT
Have you decided which system you are using?
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 21, 2014 19:19:16 GMT
Have you decided which system you are using? Not yet... my buddy Greg has loaned me a few different makes of the RPG from his store's stock, with my promise that I'll buy the one I intend to actually use. I've got a fair bit of reading ahead of me. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 21, 2014 19:34:40 GMT
Man I need a buddy like that.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 21, 2014 20:15:34 GMT
That's "four" versions. Enjoy.
I say four because d20 and saga are fairly similar so not REALLY four distinct versions
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 21, 2014 23:47:36 GMT
Man I need a buddy like that. It's all fun and games until he brings you a computer with enough viruses to make even a syphilis-sweating nightmare like KE$HA look clean and asks you to fix it... That's "four" versions. Enjoy. I say four because d20 and saga are fairly similar so not REALLY four distinct versions Yeah, it's a lot to get through... it'll probably be this weekend sometime that I reach an actual decision on that front. Then another week of actual game prep. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 22, 2014 0:40:53 GMT
Well depending on what system you pick I'll be glad to help if I can
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 22, 2014 19:58:28 GMT
Well depending on what system you pick I'll be glad to help if I can Righto... though I think I've noticed something horrible about Star Wars. So... the Empire was created and effectively ruled by the Sith and their flunkies, who are supposed to be teh evulz. Why is it growing increasingly apparent that they're actually the good guys here? The Empire seems to have been the only government which has yet appeared in the Galaxy Far Far Away that wasn't HORRIBLY dysfunctional, horribly short-lived, or both. There's something of a recurring theme in this Expanded Universe material that representative governments are inherently corrupt and incapable of taking decisive action... and that only totalitarian governments run by the most horrible people imaginable can do anything right or quickly. Of course, the movies naturally play the Sith Lords off as doing everything they do for teh evulz... but everything I've read of Expanded Universe material thus far seems to indicate that the real hero of the Star Wars universe is Emperor Palpatine. He's entirely a bastard when his actions are viewed on their own, but when you stop to consider that he almost certainly knew his galaxy was going to come under attack by extragalactic invaders dedicated to the extermination of all other life, his decisions take on an entirely different tone. Just look at how his villified deeds become virtues in context... it's CREEPY. - Aiding his Sith master, Palpatine accidentally brought about the virgin birth of the Chosen One, the most powerful Force adept ever born... and the perfect soldier to facilitate his other preparations, and the ultimate general for his armies.
- As a Sith Lord, he and his minions carefully orchestrated a series of events intended to ensure his rise to greater power within the Republic Senate, including the invasion of Naboo, the Clone Wars, Order 66, and removal of the Senate from actual power... all of which streamlined every aspect of the galactic government, allowing for decisions to be made and acted upon far more quickly and efficiently than the Old Republic ever could, the cornerstone of a viable defense.
- As a Sith Lord impersonating a Jedi Master, he ordered the creation of a vast army of utterly expendable clones who are programmed to fight and die without complaint or qualm... the perfect army with which to fight the legions of horrifyingly amoral extragalactic invaders, and the groundwork for the greatest defense force history had ever seen.
- As a Sith Lord, he annihilated the Jedi Order, orchestrated a massive military buildup, and created numerous weapons of mass destruction on a scale never before seen... effectively taking the Republic's peacenik police out of the picture and preventing the rise of dozens or hundreds of extremely capable Dark Jedi as the horrors of war took a toll on their mortal minds, built an army capable of dispassionately meeting genocide with genocide in the name of victory, and building the weapons needed to ensure that the ones getting massacred were NOT the galaxy's native inhabitants.
- As Emperor, he legalized slavery and made aliens second-class citizens in the Empire... but in so doing, he put an end to many of the internal feuds between those alien races, which were a major cause of the Republic's problems, and wasn't opposed to appointing capable aliens to the very highest offices in the Empire and granting them vast authority if they'd demonstrated they were equal to the task and willing to execute their duties even-handedly. You could even argue he'd made the galaxy a representative government for the first time... since humans are a supermajority in the galaxy.
Then... consider that, after Palpatine was killed by Vader and Skywalker... no representative government in the galaxy lasted more than a couple decades at best. The New Republic was shot through with internal feuds to the point that it was totally incapable of responding to ANY threat effectively. A consistent theme seems to be that the aliens are the ones who make it completely horrible for everyone (like that Borsk Fel'yea guy) by undermining EVERYTHING with their own quests for personal power and glory. Every government that emerges in the aftermath of the Empire is such a freaking mess that it can be very swiftly overthrown or entirely subverted by the work of one careful, patient, and reasonably capable Sith Lord. The Imperial commanders are so trustworthy, so capable, and so effective, that more often than not the New Republic and its successor governments bring THEM in to run things. When you really stop and think about it, you realize that Star Wars is actually a tragedy... it doesn't have a happy ending. In Return of the Jedi, the one guy who kept the galaxy running is dead and the galaxy is FUCKED. Not only is it now not ready to repel an invasion from beyond the galaxy itself, but its government disintegrates into sectarian violence that'd make the middle east conflicts look like an episode of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 22, 2014 20:09:54 GMT
Except the galactic republic had actually run relatively well for the better part of a thousand years. It was only during palpatines lifetime that corruption was to the point if being a problem
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 22, 2014 20:54:57 GMT
George Lucas has stated that Palpatine considers himself the savior of the galaxy.
Corruption and decay, honestly, are themes in ANY government, not just a representative one.
The Old Republic lasted 24,000 years */-. Knocked down by the Sith. Replaced with the Republic, and we had about a thousand years during this era, which was the Golden Age of the Republic.
At which time, things had gone too long without major change. Think of it like the UN, with a little more power. It's not a "single" government. Each planet still had its own governmental system, but they joined the Republic on top of that- not instead of. And in fact, the democracy side of the republic had all but fallen apart. Restoration of Democracy was one of the key things that Palpatine was using to get himself elected to Chancellor.
It was great at first, but little by little, it got bloated. It became a political mess, as everyone was out for themselves. Some planets were clamoring for "their fair share" of credits FROM the Republic, while others were complaining about how much they were GIVING. Some planets complained because of old feuds, or this reason or that. They started spending more money in some places, which created economic problems for the planets that were footing the bills.
Now, when the Empire comes along, it does away with all those multiple layers. Planetary governments have MUCH less control over things. Most don't even have their own control, so much as a planetary governor, who's appointed by the Empire. Sure, you get the bureaucracy to a point, but, you're dealing with ONE system, not 2 or three. MUCH smoother.
But, here's the kicker. Define "evil". Effect Vs Motives. Is doing a good thing for an evil reason good, or evil? Is doing an evil deed for a good reason good, or evil?
Palpatine had a lot of evil MOTIVES.... but did good to achieve them. He also had some "good" motives, and did evil to achieve them. And then he had mixed goals, and did mixed actions to achieve them.
Look at his extermination of the Jedi (Order 66). He rationalized it that the Jedi HAD to be gotten rid of, because they were part of the problem. They had kept the Republic stagnant, and had protected those that were too weak, allowing them to keep sucking off of those who prospered. The Mandalorian Invasion and the follow-up Sith War caused a LOT of problems in the Republic, as different planets balked at providing troops to protect other planets, or to fight alongside ancient enemies.. or people getting pissed because "alien troops" were on their planet. People blamed the Jedi for waiting so long to fight the Mandalorians, saying that it showed the Republic and the Jedi as viewing these outer worlds as expendable.
Palpatine thought that by getting rid of the Jedi, he could get rid of the stagnating force. This allowed things to be able to grow and expand (as he saw fit).
At the same time, following Sith tradition, he wanted to succeed where others had failed, and the destruction of the Jedi was the greatest task for the Sith, EVER.
In some ways, he could truly be compared to Hitler. He had some goals that were good (in his mind), and was willing to do horrible things to achieve those goals. It wasn't HIS fault that everyone else saw his deeds as evil- he KNOWS he's doing the RIGHT thing.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 23, 2014 16:42:06 GMT
Except the galactic republic had actually run relatively well for the better part of a thousand years. It was only during palpatines lifetime that corruption was to the point if being a problem Hm... I'm not so sure about that. It seems like one of the recurring themes of the Star Wars expanded universe setting is that the Republic (Old or New) is utterly incapable of responding to literally ANY threat until it's almost entirely too late because its representative government can't stop putting the cart before the horse. George Lucas has stated that Palpatine considers himself the savior of the galaxy. The funny part is, if Vader and Skywalker had let him live, he probably would've been... if only because he was crazy prepared to repel the Vong. The Old Republic lasted 24,000 years */-. Knocked down by the Sith. Replaced with the Republic, and we had about a thousand years during this era, which was the Golden Age of the Republic. Again, I dunno if "lasting" is the same thing as "functioning". The defining feature of any government in Star Wars that called itself "the Republic" seems to be a serial inability to take action in time to actually prevent any kind of war or disaster from blowing up into a galactic-scale crisis. Now, when the Empire comes along, it does away with all those multiple layers. Planetary governments have MUCH less control over things. Most don't even have their own control, so much as a planetary governor, who's appointed by the Empire. Sure, you get the bureaucracy to a point, but, you're dealing with ONE system, not 2 or three. MUCH smoother. But, here's the kicker. Define "evil". Effect Vs Motives. Is doing a good thing for an evil reason good, or evil? Is doing an evil deed for a good reason good, or evil? Not just more streamlined... more stable. The Old Republic was a mess of internal conflicts and tiny brushfire wars. The Empire takes over... and there's only one significant troublemaker in the galaxy, which is the Rebel Alliance. The Empire falls... and we're back to a new significant crisis every alternate tuesday. In some ways, he could truly be compared to Hitler. He had some goals that were good (in his mind), and was willing to do horrible things to achieve those goals. It wasn't HIS fault that everyone else saw his deeds as evil- he KNOWS he's doing the RIGHT thing. That's the point I'm making though... despite everything "evil" that Palpatine did, both as a Sith Lord and as the Emperor, Star Wars has developed its backstory and post-movie continuity in such a way that basically vindicates him. I think in comparing Palpatine to Hitler you make my point for me... the problem is not "this is an evil man", the worrying thing is that the writers in the Star Wars expanded universe seem to have reached the general consensus that Space Hitler was Right... |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 23, 2014 17:17:17 GMT
Actually prior to the movies, the republic was relatively stable after the Jedi Sith war that ended on Ruusan and the the Republic changing through the Ruusan Reformations and the Jedi changed their policies after that war as well.
There incidents over the centuries but overall that 1000 year stretch saw the Republic grow and prosper.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 23, 2014 17:20:40 GMT
During the initial trilogy, it was very simple "Jedi Good, Sith Evil"... as soon as the expanded universe was born, we got a bit more "realism" in this debate. Good and Evil are not definites. They are both on sliding scales that often overlap. There are a million different shades of grey to worry about.
And most of the universe falls into those grey areas, even Dark Lords of the Sith
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 24, 2014 0:50:14 GMT
Actually prior to the movies, the republic was relatively stable after the Jedi Sith war that ended on Ruusan and the the Republic changing through the Ruusan Reformations and the Jedi changed their policies after that war as well. There incidents over the centuries but overall that 1000 year stretch saw the Republic grow and prosper. Everything I've read so far makes it sound like "relatively" is an awfully loaded word for the Republic in Star Wars. There do seem to be fewer conflicts in that period... but one has to wonder if it isn't just because that period's had less coverage than the others. During the initial trilogy, it was very simple "Jedi Good, Sith Evil"... as soon as the expanded universe was born, we got a bit more "realism" in this debate. Good and Evil are not definites. They are both on sliding scales that often overlap. There are a million different shades of grey to worry about. And most of the universe falls into those grey areas, even Dark Lords of the Sith Well, the first three Star Wars movies were half morality play and half classical fantasy spun into a science fiction setting... the second three were just a very unpleasant bowel movement on the part of George Lucas. While the lack of moral absolutes in Star Wars sounds like it works on paper, TPTB have apparently weighed in on that "gray area" stuff and basically said it's a load of crap and that "balance" in the force means no dark side period. |
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