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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 10, 2014 7:16:02 GMT
WARNING: I know precisely f***-all about Star Wars. I've got some players who have expressed some interest in maybe trying out a Star Wars game for variety's sake, and I'm in desperate need of recommendations both for reading material to get a good handle on the setting of the franchise AND a recommendation of RPG books that are relatively forgiving for someone whose sole RPG-ing experience to date has been Palladium's stuff and homebrews based on same. Heck, even recommendations for game settings (chronologically) that are especially easy/forgiving to run would be more than welcome.
Okay... I think the above warning pretty much captures the situation. Star Wars has never been my cup of tea. I've seen all six movies, but otherwise my exposure to the Galaxy Far Far Away has been VERY limited. My only brushes with the Star Wars expanded universe were the two old Tales of <blank> short story collections, the first couple Young Jedi Knights books a friend had in middle school, and one Old Republic comic title I found in a library once that had something to do with a seriously retro togas-and-crystal-towers setting where a pair of sibling explorers find some planet where pointy-faced people fight with crystal swords. (I can practically hear you cringing from that last one, and I am SO sorry for subjecting you to that "summary of a memory"...  ) So, the long and short of it is... I've got a couple players who, after our experiment with a rough homebrew Five Star Stories game, have expressed an interest in some laser sword combat that doesn't involve giant robots and bullet-time space wizards. Recommended reading to get to grips with the current, official Star Wars setting would be extremely welcome... I think they want to do something set after Return of the Jedi, since the mere mention of the prequel trilogy tends to provoke Tourette Syndrome-esque blasts of spontaneous profanity from said buddies. A suggestion of a particularly forgiving time period in that general vicinity of story would be great too. My only recollections of what's in that period are some vague memories of a couple books about Han Solo's kids growing up. Wookieepedia's a nice resource, but if you're like me and haven't a clue what 90% of this stuff means, it's just a tangled, fractal spreadsheet nightmare. I'm open to pretty much any suggestions on story that you think will NOT provoke cluster F-bombings from my players. And, of course... I need books. I figure you guys probably have a rock-solid lock on this one. I appreciate any help you guys can give me here. EDIT: Okay, I THINK I've found the titles of the books and so on that I've got and/or vaguely recall reading, it's a short list: Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights: Heirs to the Force
Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights: Shards of AlderaanStar Wars: Young Jedi Knights: The Emperor's Plague
Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights: Crisis at Crystal Reef
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi: the Golden Age of the Sith (I think?) Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina
Tales from Jabba's PalaceI also believe I have (somewhere) first-edition versions of the Essential Guide books for Characters, Vehicles, Weapons, Planets, and Droids, though I'm sure that lore is now WAY outdated and I have no idea where the books are at present.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 10, 2014 8:48:08 GMT
Short version, this is what you're looking for Star Wars Essential Readers companion; It's a book that takes the EU, and gives you run downs on the main points of the novels and the series and what not all the way through the end of the last major Arc, last year. It's got them in order that they appear and gives you just enough information to see if you want to bother reading the book it's giving a synopsis to. Like any synopsis, it's a general "What happened here" leaving out alot of the fun details, but it's enough that you get the main points and don't feel stupid if someone brings up.. Mara Jade, or Thrawn, or the Yuzon Vong, etc. It's good, it's got some great art along the way, it's not presented as a 'for dummys' book, but it's not hard to digest, and as you read through you can take notes on what you find interesting, and seek out those books. For someone trying to 'catch up' on Star Wars, it's exactly what you're looking for. $11 in Kindle version $32 in dead tree Kindle www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Guides-ebook/dp/B008ZPGBV4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389343056&sr=8-1&keywords=star+wars+essential+reader%27s+companionDead tree www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Pablo-Hidalgo/dp/B00BXUG6AO/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1389342991&sr=8-4&keywords=star+wars+essential+reader%27s+companionNow.. with that you'll also want this. Wookiepedia starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_PageYou see something in the above book. Want to know more about it. You punch it into Wookiepedia, it gives you the information you're looking for, often cross referenced and you can as with normal Wiki pedia, follow links in the articles over and over and over and over, reading stuff that connects to your original search .. pretty much till ya die if you want to. Wookiepedia is a great reference source and.. again not 100% infallible, it surely helps and is often footnoted so you an see where information came from and you can read THAT if you want to. If the Reader's companion isn't want you want and you actually want full out novels to start, and you've seen all 6 movies, you start with 7 8 and 9. Or what is pretty much universally considered to be what 7 8 and 9 SHOULD be... period. Collectively they're know as: The Thrawn Trilogy Heir to the Empire. Dark Force Rising The Last Command. Three novels by Timothy Zhan. You can get all three in one hard back for $23 www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Thrawn-Trilogy/dp/1595824170/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1389343433&sr=8-3&keywords=thrawn+trilogyBut to be honest, these are read probably more than any other EU books, ever. If you want to go cheaper an don't mind used copies you can find them for a penny and 3.99 shipping in the used section of Amazon (So $4 each) or you can get them in lots off Ebay for cheep. (About $4 each is what you're going to pay unless you find a good lot that no one else sees) That trilogy is going to give you a good 'Start' into Star Wars EU with out venturing into some of the more questionable side branches. (Of which... there are many) So.. that should get you started. I highly Recommend both the Essential Reader's Guide, for the broad broad information source and the 'Will I like this?' Aspect, and the The Thrawn Trilogy for your first step if you want to read full out novels with out having to do any research. Either way, Wookiepedia is your friend and can (And will) be used extensively once you start down your path, my young Padawan. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 10, 2014 14:21:18 GMT
Well, I am assuming you will be playing the latest incarnation of the RPG which leaves you a bit limited to what era you can play in to some degree as it is set in the original trilogy era.
First thing you need in the RPG. Keep in mind it is very light on the force and force users so if they are looking to play those you may want to play one of the older RPGs.
After that well, Wookieepedia really is your friend in this case. It is, as has been said, not infallible but it is pretty well vetted and up to date.
For reading to immerse yourself in a non force based setup I recommend the X-wing Rogue Squadron novels by Miachael Stackpole (Starfighter squadron missions by and large) and the X-wing Wraith Squadron Novels by Aaron Allston (special ops mixed mission capability). They are post Return of the Jedi and probably the easiest model to follow with the base RPG.
The readers companion is great but it is also a lot of info you may not be interested in at this time.
As for older RPGs....d20 was eh. Good fluff but I am not a fan of their mechanics overall. (I have to break them for it to work the way I think it should). West End Games' d6 version to me is still the best both in simplicity and the ability to complex things if you so choose.
The other best thing to do is just ask questions. Star wars spans such a long period of time and various eras it is difficult to really say "this is best"
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 10, 2014 17:33:19 GMT
Well, like Jaymz said, you're probably playing the newest SW RPG. If you have NOT picked it up yet, I would suggest the old West End Games D6 SW RPG. Fairly simple system, good rules, lots of options.
As for setting, I would honestly stay away from any of the movie stuff. Two reasons: 1) If you screw up, there's always THAT GUY who will point it out and argue "but so-and-so does this, then this happens, and we can't do that because so-and-so has to be able to do THIS later"... Reason #2 ties into that- your characters will either have to replace main characters, or be relegated to second tier characters. Either way, bleh.
Instead, I'd either go backwards, into the Old Republic Era, or into the future, and say a "this has happened" and set up the scenario. Either way, gives you a lot of wiggle room. Justifies a lot of things being "different" than the "normal" universe. You can also go "away" from the core worlds. They can be out on the Rim, or they can be on an Explorer ship, checking new hyperspace routes. Let's you have the freedom to do whatever you want (almost), without having to worry about how long the jump between Dantooine and Onderon is.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 10, 2014 22:34:55 GMT
I thought he meant actual books and EU. Not which game books. lol
As Jaymz pointed out the newest version of the game isn't 'complete' yet. It barely brushes the force and assumes strongly you're playing a non force user during the movie era. Which Josh then points out can be problematic because you have to play second tier to the movie heroes and nothing you're doing is going to make that much if any difference, as the big things happen in the movies with the heroes.
I actually prefer the time 'after' the movies. the NJO (New Jedi Order) Time frame myself.
As for the RPGs. I don't recommend going back 20+ years to the D6. I know alot of people have fond memories from when they were kids but it's old and you're going to have to search and bid high for stuff off Ebay and what not, and they weren't that well put together to start so they don't hold up all that well
Sega Edition had a good workup and a good spread of books. The incarnation before Sega "Star Wars Role Playing Game Revised Core rules" Etc from earlier in the 2000s was pretty good too.
I don't 'dislike' Edge of the Empire. It's a new twist on rules and what not that look interesting. But as I said it's not a complete game (Yet) and you're pigeonholed into what you can play. There's two more core books they're putting out (but surprisingly slowly, like months to years after the first core book. HUH???) . One of them being on the Force. Once those come out, that equation may change.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 10, 2014 23:25:43 GMT
Well.....if one wants to put the work in there were plenty of pretty good adventures during the movie era done by WEG (easily obtained via PDF, in fact there is a site that I believe has every single Star Wars d6 book available as a PDF on it) in which for what you are doing the players are very much front and centre and takes place as "other stuff going on" away from the main characters of the movies. Adventures in which you can save Ackbar before he is an admiral as an example. Until the explosion of novels that started in the mid 90's or so, Star Wars d6 WAS the EU LOL.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 10, 2014 23:36:44 GMT
My local used bookstore (which is, admittedly, uber-awesome. Even their small branch <yes, they have multiple> is the size of a lot of the Barnes & Noble stores I've seen)
I routinely see the D6 stuff in there (I even got some, to help fill out my collection), pretty cheap.
The D20 version wasn't BAD, but it wasn't all that great. It had more of a "D&D with lasers and the force" feel, IMO. The up side is that there was PLENTY of material for whatever you wanted to play. Jedi, Dark Side, Empire, non-of the above, whatever. In whatever era you want.
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But, if you're going books, Thrawn Trilogy is good. If you're going for a bounty-hunter style game (which can be REALLY fun), you might want to check out the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy- Mandalorian Armor, Slave Ship, and Hard Merchandise.
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And, really, timeframe is dependent on.. personal preference. I'm a fan of the Old Republic, during the Sith Invasion, or Mandalorian Wars, or the just-post Mandalorian Wars Revan era. Think the Knights of the Old Republic games timeframes. Sci-Fi is a fan of the post-movies era. Either works great, but I think we're all pretty much agreed, don't use the movie era. Or the movie events, unless as "background info".
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I'll be honest- playing a Sith campaign during the Sith Invasion- AWE-SOME. In my opinion
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 11, 2014 7:36:01 GMT
The books are coming out one year after another to assure full play testing and work on them. It is smart to do when you think about it, it makes sure the rules and classes are fully worked out vs just rush it. The better they work the rules out the less chance you look like palladium.
One isn't pigeon hold into playing a non-force user there is a force user class just not a Jedi or Seth. I personally don't mind that it is set in the empiral age, the above grip to me can be said of all the eras in the EU if you think about it. Each era had a major event that major players deal with, so if you want to stop and think about it the argument is moot.
Fantasy flight had mentioned once all three books are out releasing source books to cover the other eras. So fans of the old republic and such can run those type of games, the core books are aet in te galactic era as most people have seen the movies and it is much easier to intrude new players.
As for books and what not, sci-fi and jaymz have a good handle on things. I myself love anything from the empiral age, Hans backstory book ( I can't remember the name right now it is late and I am always using my iPhone to type up my responses) is a great read. Along with the rouge squadron books. All and all I say just ask Sci-Fi about what is best from what era of the EU and he'll tell yeah as will Jaymz.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 11, 2014 13:51:41 GMT
Whooboy... talk about an enthusiastic response. Lemme dig thru all this. I really appreciate the help. Short version, this is what you're looking for Star Wars Essential Readers companion; Dead tree and digital copies are on order. That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking for as a starting point... some kind of nice, neat, self-contained synopsis of the major points of the post-Rebellion Star Wars story, at least within a couple decades of the end of RotJ. Yeah, I've had that one bookmarked for a few days now, though every attempt to look up something I remember from that pitifully short list I posted usually leaves me in "What the hell did I just read?" and "I don't remember any of this!" territory. Collectively they're know as: The Thrawn Trilogy Heir to the Empire. Dark Force Rising The Last Command. Y'think this'll be available by Barnes and Noble? I'm gonna be goin' past one later today and stopping in to pick up a preordered copy of Horus Heresy book The Unremembered Empire. I'll ask after the Thrawn Trilogy book whilst I'm there. Pro'lly gonna end up picking up a copy of the Star Wars movies on DVD or Blu-Ray while I'm at it, since my one copy is an ANCIENT set of VHS tapes of the original theatrical versions and I haven't owned a VCR since like 2003. Well, I am assuming you will be playing the latest incarnation of the RPG which leaves you a bit limited to what era you can play in to some degree as it is set in the original trilogy era. I'm pretty sure my guys have their hearts set on runny-jumpy-laser-swordy action... 's there anything a bit more Jedi-intensive? For reading to immerse yourself in a non force based setup I recommend the X-wing Rogue Squadron novels by Miachael Stackpole (Starfighter squadron missions by and large) and the X-wing Wraith Squadron Novels by Aaron Allston (special ops mixed mission capability). They are post Return of the Jedi and probably the easiest model to follow with the base RPG. Righto, I'll add those to the list of the books I'll be asking after at the Barnes and Noble. Well, like Jaymz said, you're probably playing the newest SW RPG. If you have NOT picked it up yet, I would suggest the old West End Games D6 SW RPG. Fairly simple system, good rules, lots of options. Nope, I hadn't picked up any RPG books for it yet... so I'll ring up my local game store and inquire after those. There's gotta be somethin' SW buried in their corner rack of old-fashioned RPGs. (Most of my local store is given over to tabletop gamers and, to a lesser extent, TCG-ers.) As for setting, I would honestly stay away from any of the movie stuff. Two reasons: 1) If you screw up, there's always THAT GUY who will point it out and argue "but so-and-so does this, then this happens, and we can't do that because so-and-so has to be able to do THIS later"... Reason #2 ties into that- your characters will either have to replace main characters, or be relegated to second tier characters. Either way, bleh. I was gonna stay away from the movies on principle... especially the new trilogy, since that provokes a torrent of vitriol from my players (or, really, anyone... as far as I've experienced) and try to spin something up from the aftermath of the movies, since that's the only area where I've actually read any EU titles (except that one that was set way in the past or something). I thought he meant actual books and EU. Not which game books. lol Actually, I meant both... the actual books to get a handle on the setting, since the last time I saw or read any Star Wars apart from the occasional parodies on Robot Chicken or Family Guy (or the new trilogy, which my players seem to also consider a parody), Bill Clinton was still in the White House. Even I hate Jar-Jar, and I've been desensitized to wacky support characters by a years and years of jRPGs and anime. As Jaymz pointed out the newest version of the game isn't 'complete' yet. It barely brushes the force and assumes strongly you're playing a non force user during the movie era. Which Josh then points out can be problematic because you have to play second tier to the movie heroes and nothing you're doing is going to make that much if any difference, as the big things happen in the movies with the heroes. Yeah, I'm assuming my players want to dig fairly heavily into the whole Jedi thing. The thing that prompted their interest in Star Wars was a homebrew RPG based on Five Star Stories, which is kind of a big warring space empires setting where the wars are settled by knights who are basically bullet-time Jedi who have some more traditional combat magic instead of the force and occasionally do their trick in giant robots. Lots of woosh-crikey laser sword combat and all... even with the giant robots (though in that, laser swords aren't exactly hard to get your hands on, whereas I believe in Star Wars they're like unique to the Jedi that uses them). I actually prefer the time 'after' the movies. the NJO (New Jedi Order) Time frame myself. Yeah, that's what I was shooting for... whenever I run an RPG, like the Macross ones I've been running for ages, I try to keep any well-known main characters the hell out of the picture. I have no frigging clue what Luke, Han, and company did after the war, but I'm hoping the Galaxy Far Far Away is a big enough place where they won't be looming over every major event the way Prick Hunter and co. do in Robotech. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 11, 2014 14:49:16 GMT
At the Barnes and Noble right now... found the three Thrawn trilogy books in paperback ed. (print date says 1992?)
Edit: Found the Essential Reader's companion too.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 11, 2014 15:05:40 GMT
Yeah they are the first books in the resurrection of Star Wars....
Also 2 PM's sent to you Mike.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 11, 2014 16:20:53 GMT
Yeah they are the first books in the resurrection of Star Wars.... Also 2 PM's sent to you Mike. Righto... I have some maintenance to do on my family's computers today, so I'm gonna dig into the first Thrawn book to pass the time. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 11, 2014 16:32:17 GMT
As a personal aside. To me Timothy Zahn is the BEST SW writer there has been. He just seems to GET IT in terms of pacing and what not.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 11, 2014 18:46:20 GMT
As a personal aside. To me Timothy Zahn is the BEST SW writer there has been. He just seems to GET IT in terms of pacing and what not. Well, I started reading Heir to the Empire while I was waiting for a disk check to finish on one of the machines, and I have to say so far it's not bad. The book's cover art is absolutely ridiculous looking, though that's mostly Space Moses or whatever the hell his name will turn out to be and his laser fingers... but it was a simpler time back then, I guess. What bothers me most, and it's such an absolutely ridiculous and pointless thing to be bothered by, is that the Galaxy Far Far Away is apparently using clocks just like ours. A day composed of twenty-four sixty minute hours. I know it's a screwball thing to be bothered by, but I would've expected the Imperial Navy, which is like 1/2 Nazi Germany and 1/2 British Royal Navy would keep track of time by Bells or something else... since these aren't humans, right? (Or at least, not THAT kind of human.) EDIT: The Captain does get points for running a preposterously disciplined bridge... |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 11, 2014 20:26:17 GMT
Mike - they are on Coruscant which is essentially earth. Thus the 24 hour clock. Since that is the capital of the galaxy, then most of the time they use that as the base time to go by. In world (and in game) they do explain that different planets have different length of days and such. It is just that when dealing in galactic type things they refer to "galactic standard" time and that would Coruscant/"earth"  Hope that makes more sens now. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 11, 2014 20:30:29 GMT
It's also what we go by, so it's easy to default back to it, so people don't get too confused. Wait till you find out Mara's favorite drink. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 11, 2014 20:47:42 GMT
Mike - they are on Coruscant which is essentially earth. Thus the 24 hour clock. Since that is the capital of the galaxy, then most of the time they use that as the base time to go by. In world (and in game) they do explain that different planets have different length of days and such. It is just that when dealing in galactic type things they refer to "galactic standard" time and that would Coruscant/"earth" Hope that makes more sens now. By "basically Earth" you mean it's the center of galactic society and government, right? Or is that where the not-actually-humans from Star Wars come from too? (I only ask because the only version of Earth I can think of that even vaguely resembles Coruscant from the new trilogy is Imperial Terra from Warhammer 40,000, just less crystal-spires-and-togas and more heavy Gothic architecture.) That does make a bit more sense, yes... it was just weirdly immersion-breaking for some reason, like if there'd been a scene in Phantom Menace where Yoda's calls Qui-Gon up on an iPhone. It's also what we go by, so it's easy to default back to it, so people don't get too confused. Wait till you find out Mara's favorite drink. Who? I'm gettin' like nine or ten different people with variants of that name on the wiki. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 11, 2014 20:59:49 GMT
Mara Jade
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 11, 2014 22:25:45 GMT
Yes. Mara Jade. My favorite EU character.    Mara Jade.... Could simply walk into Mordor. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 12, 2014 2:48:38 GMT
Yes. Mara Jade. My favorite EU character. Ah, okay then... not that I have anything against a hot redhead in tight leather pants, but that doesn't really give me a ton of context for who Mara Jade is.  The wiki is WORDSWORDSWORDSWORDSWORDS and a cogent summary is not forthcoming on that front. My take-away message from the first couple paragraphs is "Luke totally hit that. The Emperor might've too... and that's just disgusting." You'd figure that, after all the trouble the galaxy's had with guys called "the Son of Skywalker", he'd have kept it in his pants. Mara Jade.... Could simply walk into Mordor. With respect, a pair of largely unarmed hobbits and an unhinged god-knows-what simply walked into Mordor... it's not all that difficult. Made Boromir look like a total bitch in the process. Hell, didn't the unhinged one do it TWICE? Moreover, Gandalf has a goddamn GIANT EAGLE... why didn't they just effing FLY to Mount Doom and drop the ring in? (Secure as Mordor's borders are, you'd swear that's where we've been recruiting TSA agents...) |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 12, 2014 3:26:38 GMT
Well I was trying not to ruin it for you as to who she was. lol. The Emp didn't hit it. BTW. He's kinda in her head(For a while). Not her more tender parts.
As for the second. It's a meme.
And it was about the Journey.
And the eagles would have gotten shot down/taken down by the 9, had they not been defeated before hand.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 12, 2014 3:48:27 GMT
Well I was trying not to ruin it for you as to who she was. lol. The Emp didn't hit it. BTW. He's kinda in her head(For a while). Not her more tender parts. So that's how he rolls, eh? Creepy. As for the second. It's a meme. I know. And it was about the Journey. Nah, it was about Tolkien coming up with a way to force others to read his dictionaries of made-up languages.  |
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 12, 2014 4:20:34 GMT
Moreover, Gandalf has a goddamn GIANT EAGLE... why didn't they just effing FLY to Mount Doom and drop the ring in?
(Secure as Mordor's borders are, you'd swear that's where we've been recruiting TSA agents...)
Go to YouTube and look for "how it should have ended lord of the rings". HISHE animated video.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 12, 2014 17:55:52 GMT
So... I'm about halfway through Star Wars: Heir to the Empire, and I have to say it's not bad. Mr. Zahn is clearly more a Dan Abnett than a C.S. Goto, and that's a very good thing. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's blockbuster material, but if we were talking the anime industry it would easily justify an OVA.
All the same, the nagging feeling that this somehow invalidates the ending of Return of the Jedi just won't go away. I mean, after they've gotten rid of the Emperor and the second Death Star is a cloud of metallic confetti around Endor, that's it. The Empire's fallen and folks in the Galaxy Far Far Away seem pretty stoked about it on average. Luke's the last of the Jedi Order and set to rebuild it at his leisure now that the Dark Side's not top dog. This book sort of takes the "nu-uh!" approach to all that, so now there's a crazy-prepared new Imperial commander and the Empire's still a thing, albeit a shrinking thing. Luke's not the last of the Jedi, because some lolrandom cloned Jedi just pops out of the woodwork as if to remind everyone that Yoda and Obi-Wan are lying pricks... and the entire universe seems to know that Han and Leia are knocking boots. I mean, good for him that he's hittin' that, but does the rest of the galaxy really need to know? When Admiral Thrawn seems to be one step ahead of everyone all the time, you have to wonder whether he's just THAT good or he's skimming everything he needs to know from Han's Facebook status.
More to the point, wasn't it kind of a BIG bullet point in Jedi that Luke was the last of the Jedi. Their last hope, and all that jazz. Now we've got another one, even if he is a clone, appearing for the lulz and apparently deciding to reestablish the Jedi Order by himself using Luke and Leia and Leia's unborn kids... because dammit, he'll find a way to train a fetus. Wookieepedia informs me this isn't exactly what you'd call an isolated incident... it seems like Jedi who dodged the Order 66 purge appear with monotonous regularity in the expanded universe of Star Wars. The sheer number of 'em is kind of amusing... it's like if a new Jedi goes on vacation, he'll accidentally/coincidentally stay at a resort where an Order 66 survivor just happens to be working undercover as a bellhop, or if he goes to the bathroom he'll find one hiding under the sink when he goes for a fresh bogroll.
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 12, 2014 17:56:48 GMT
Moreover, Gandalf has a goddamn GIANT EAGLE... why didn't they just effing FLY to Mount Doom and drop the ring in? (Secure as Mordor's borders are, you'd swear that's where we've been recruiting TSA agents...) Go to YouTube and look for "how it should have ended lord of the rings". HISHE animated video. The wreaths had flying mounts as well. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 12, 2014 18:59:35 GMT
So... I'm about halfway through Star Wars: Heir to the Empire, and I have to say it's not bad. Mr. Zahn is clearly more a Dan Abnett than a C.S. Goto, and that's a very good thing. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's blockbuster material, but if we were talking the anime industry it would easily justify an OVA. All the same, the nagging feeling that this somehow invalidates the ending of Return of the Jedi just won't go away. I mean, after they've gotten rid of the Emperor and the second Death Star is a cloud of metallic confetti around Endor, that's it. The Empire's fallen and folks in the Galaxy Far Far Away seem pretty stoked about it on average. Luke's the last of the Jedi Order and set to rebuild it at his leisure now that the Dark Side's not top dog. This book sort of takes the "nu-uh!" approach to all that, so now there's a crazy-prepared new Imperial commander and the Empire's still a thing, albeit a shrinking thing. Luke's not the last of the Jedi, because some lolrandom cloned Jedi just pops out of the woodwork as if to remind everyone that Yoda and Obi-Wan are lying pricks... and the entire universe seems to know that Han and Leia are knocking boots. I mean, good for him that he's hittin' that, but does the rest of the galaxy really need to know? When Admiral Thrawn seems to be one step ahead of everyone all the time, you have to wonder whether he's just THAT good or he's skimming everything he needs to know from Han's Facebook status. More to the point, wasn't it kind of a BIG bullet point in Jedi that Luke was the last of the Jedi. Their last hope, and all that jazz. Now we've got another one, even if he is a clone, appearing for the lulz and apparently deciding to reestablish the Jedi Order by himself using Luke and Leia and Leia's unborn kids... because dammit, he'll find a way to train a fetus. Wookieepedia informs me this isn't exactly what you'd call an isolated incident... it seems like Jedi who dodged the Order 66 purge appear with monotonous regularity in the expanded universe of Star Wars. The sheer number of 'em is kind of amusing... it's like if a new Jedi goes on vacation, he'll accidentally/coincidentally stay at a resort where an Order 66 survivor just happens to be working undercover as a bellhop, or if he goes to the bathroom he'll find one hiding under the sink when he goes for a fresh bogroll. To address this, one simply has to accept a little bend and remember, "The Galaxy is a BIG ASS PLACE" Turns out there's a bunch of other jedi out there, that have come out in the last 30 years. Probably a good 10 to 20 "Jedi" with at least that many "Force Traditions" That have dozens of members. Yoda was top dog and not infallible. How it's explained, usually is 1) They were far away and escaped the purge or 2) They purposefully hid, so they couldn't be sensed. Like Yoda on Dagoba, hiding by a source of dark side energy or somthing to cloak their own force signature. It's a small thing but you gotta sort of factor in, that.... the book is new to you, and you're reading through it, but it's like 23 years old. Lots has happened since then to fill in the Star Wars galaxy. You're not wrong, Yoda acted like there was only one choice, but... He wasn't exactly tromping across the galaxy at that point and the others were purposefully in hiding. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 12, 2014 20:11:37 GMT
Not to mention Luke is supposed to be the only hope more in that he is the last Jedi to be trained and he is the son of Anakin Skywalker, the chosen one. (Yes I know we do not know of the chosen one status until a good 8-9 years after this books publication)
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 12, 2014 20:11:51 GMT
To address this, one simply has to accept a little bend and remember, "The Galaxy is a BIG ASS PLACE" Turns out there's a bunch of other jedi out there, that have come out in the last 30 years. Probably a good 10 to 20 "Jedi" with at least that many "Force Traditions" That have dozens of members. True, though even the new trilogy doesn't seem to suggest that many (if any) jedi besides Obi-Wan and Yoda actually managed to get away from the troops carrying out Order 66. 's kind of improbable that THAT many Jedi slipped through the cracks for decades when it seems like they're actually pretty rubbish about hiding. Obi-Wan made almost no effort to hide, for instance. Seems like this Joruus is even worse at it, appointing himself dictator and all. It's a small thing but you gotta sort of factor in, that.... the book is new to you, and you're reading through it, but it's like 23 years old. Lots has happened since then to fill in the Star Wars galaxy. You're not wrong, Yoda acted like there was only one choice, but... He wasn't exactly tromping across the galaxy at that point and the others were purposefully in hiding. True... at the time this book was printed, I was all of six years old.  |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 12, 2014 20:58:09 GMT
Actually it seems like more than it is....In post movie era...there really aren't that many that just "pop up" per se. Ther are plenty of force users but really Jedi by and large. Also keep in mind that about 2 years after the events of this trilogy Luke does start a new academy up and begins training jedi as well.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 12, 2014 20:59:40 GMT
You have to consider that while the Emperor and Vader were handled, that doesn't negate the rest of the Empire.
In the US if the pres and vice pres were killed, we still have others ready to assume leadership and keep the country going. Same thing with them Empire, except a lot of the military leaders took off on their own
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Hope that makes more sens now.
