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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 12, 2014 23:27:22 GMT
You have to consider that while the Emperor and Vader were handled, that doesn't negate the rest of the Empire. In the US if the pres and vice pres were killed, we still have others ready to assume leadership and keep the country going. Same thing with them Empire, except a lot of the military leaders took off on their own True, but that's America... a constitutional democratic republic. Star Wars establishes that, around the time of the Battle of Yavin, the Empire had ceased to be even a constitutional monarchy with the dissolution of the Imperial Senate. The loss of the President and Vice President of the United States wouldn't set things back all that much here, because there's a clearly established succession practice laid out in the law. The Empire was, as far as everything thus far has said, an absolute monarchy in which the Emperor wielded supreme executive power and things went to pot because there was no clear succession. Normally when a despot is overthrown, even his own troops are often quite happy to give up the fight because, hey, that guy was a jerk. Star Wars seems to halfheartedly do this... the Chimera is supposedly crewed mainly by conscripts who were taken at gunpoint. You'd think after a little bit, they'd be rather less inclined to continue supporting the Empire. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 12, 2014 23:50:21 GMT
The difference is, the core worlds and even the colonies, largely the ones paying the freight, really had no issue with how the empire did things as they largely benefited form it all thus they were the hardest ones to get. Even the military (especially the navy) wa on board with he law and order the empire purported to desire. Combine that with the bulk of the core worlds and colonies were in fact human populated and the empire was a humanist society and you have a "nation" that wouldn't dissolve over night by any stretch....the trilogy you are reading is set 5 years after Return of the Jedi so that is pretty quick considering at the time of Jedi the Rebel Alliance operated in mostly the outer rim. We're talking an area of space from the deep core to the outer rim of 70 000 light years or more across. For the Rebels to drive the empire essentially into the deep core and few other small enclaves is certainly something.
It unfortunately doesn't cover any of that in those novels.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 13, 2014 1:02:28 GMT
The difference is, the core worlds and even the colonies, largely the ones paying the freight, really had no issue with how the empire did things as they largely benefited form it all thus they were the hardest ones to get. Even the military (especially the navy) wa on board with he law and order the empire purported to desire. Combine that with the bulk of the core worlds and colonies were in fact human populated and the empire was a humanist society and you have a "nation" that wouldn't dissolve over night by any stretch....the trilogy you are reading is set 5 years after Return of the Jedi so that is pretty quick considering at the time of Jedi the Rebel Alliance operated in mostly the outer rim. We're talking an area of space from the deep core to the outer rim of 70 000 light years or more across. For the Rebels to drive the empire essentially into the deep core and few other small enclaves is certainly something. It unfortunately doesn't cover any of that in those novels. Um... that doesn't appear to be entirely consistent with what I'm reading here though. This is painting a picture of a post- Jedi Empire that is desperately trying to keep itself from rolling up like a goddamn window shade, and the only reason the New Republic isn't gaining ground fast enough to be meaningful is because they're trying to establish that they're not about to become the Empire Mk.II. (Because, y'know, they're genre savvy and know that "Always two, there are...".) It's a little unsettling how the book wavers back and forth between the humanocentric policies of the Empire being a bad thing and then immediately pulling a total about-face and showing us that both alien members of the New Republic's inner council are power-hungry, control freak jerkasses while the humans are a selfless, noble bunch who just want peace, unity, and for the xenos to shut the shitting hell up and get along. We're a little off-message there. It's a little hard to buy all the New Republic's talk of wanting peace, freedom, and equality for all sentient life forms when every single alien leader in this book has sold the New Republic's heroes out within minutes of meeting them. 'course, the book also does something interesting and tries to quantify hyperspace travel in terms of distance over time, which is much slower than I'd thought when it comes to the .4 class engines on Star Destroyers and fighters. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 13, 2014 2:40:26 GMT
To address this, one simply has to accept a little bend and remember, "The Galaxy is a BIG ASS PLACE" Turns out there's a bunch of other jedi out there, that have come out in the last 30 years. Probably a good 10 to 20 "Jedi" with at least that many "Force Traditions" That have dozens of members. True, though even the new trilogy doesn't seem to suggest that many (if any) jedi besides Obi-Wan and Yoda actually managed to get away from the troops carrying out Order 66. 's kind of improbable that THAT many Jedi slipped through the cracks for decades when it seems like they're actually pretty rubbish about hiding. Obi-Wan made almost no effort to hide, for instance. Seems like this Joruus is even worse at it, appointing himself dictator and all. It's a small thing but you gotta sort of factor in, that.... the book is new to you, and you're reading through it, but it's like 23 years old. Lots has happened since then to fill in the Star Wars galaxy. You're not wrong, Yoda acted like there was only one choice, but... He wasn't exactly tromping across the galaxy at that point and the others were purposefully in hiding.  True... at the time this book was printed, I was all of six years old.  Well another thing to factor in "How many jedi escaped" You're looking at quite literally a Galaxy to hide in. Couruscant, the galactic capital alone has 1 trillion permanent residents. Those are the ones born, grow old and die there. That's 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 on that planet alone. Earth's 7,000,000,000,000. Yeah.... Now..... a trillion on ONE planet... now that's probably the upper end but that's one planet alone. Add in 100s and 1000s of other planets with their populations. Be it Millions or Billions or whatever. Now.. try and find a few thousand people spread over alll that space. Literal space, light years away and space as in "How do we find a few 100 people hiding amongst 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 on Coruscant. They CAN take off the robes and hide the light sabers. As for Obi-wan. He did actually do a lot to hide. 1) He went to a planet that Vader would never want to return to due to his past there, what happened to his mom and as it was a key moment in his turn to the darkside. Not to mention it's out in BFE. and 2) He goes out into the desert and lives more or less like a hermit. There's actually a new book out titled "Kenobi" That covers when he first got there and him 'trying' to hide and getting pulled into helping a small frontier town. And learning that he had to cut himself off even more, as just trying not to be a jedi was hard, when people needed help. Hiding in the spot where Vader's mom died, and where he was a slave, not to mention it's a low population desert planet wasn't too bad a spot. I mean it's not like the guy is going to come back and reminisce about it. 'Oh this is where my mom was tortured to death.. and over there I crushed an infant with a bolder. The more you read in EU you also find that 'Kenobi" is sort of like "Smith". or "White" or 'Jones'. The new book points that out too. When he's introduced to people in this remote, one horse like frontier town, they ask him if he's related to like 10 different Kenobi's from around the planet. So yeah, with thousands of planets spread over the galaxy, and trillions and trillions and trillions of people on those planets. The Jedi wouldn't find it all that 'hard' to hide if they really wanted to. It's 'Stop BEING JEDI' That's the hard part. How does one stop being a hero? It's a bitch. And that got many of them killed. There were also groups that aided the Jedi. Their support legions and stuff. The Sector Rangers and the like, help and form an underground railroad of sorts to try and get jedi out of dodge. But will all those trillions and trillions and trillions of people. Trying to find the jedi would be like walking up to the pacific and going "Ok. I've got a list of 1000 water molecules. *pointing to the Ocean* I WILL FIND YOU!!!! ALL 1000 OF YOU!!! Some of them are going to be miles down and 100s of miles away.. and you know. One water molecule among literal trillions. |
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 13, 2014 7:51:44 GMT
I have been wanting to read that book.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 13, 2014 8:47:13 GMT
It's pretty good. Reads like a "Space Western" (But not actually IN space)
Sort of like Firefly.
The Moisture farmers are the "Settlers" and the Sand people play the part of raiding Indians. (But not quite.)
Shenanigans occur and poor Obi-Wan gets pulled into them, when all he's TRYING to do is live alone in the desert.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 15, 2014 23:49:18 GMT
Well another thing to factor in "How many jedi escaped" You're looking at quite literally a Galaxy to hide in. Couruscant, the galactic capital alone has 1 trillion permanent residents. Those are the ones born, grow old and die there. Yet, at least going on what I've read so far in the Thrawn trilogy, it seems to be disturbingly easy to find one specific person in the morass of humanity... even when they're going out of their way to be low-key. I suppose it matters more whether the person's a jedi and wants to be left alone. Hiding in the spot where Vader's mom died, and where he was a slave, not to mention it's a low population desert planet wasn't too bad a spot. I mean it's not like the guy is going to come back and reminisce about it. 'Oh this is where my mom was tortured to death.. and over there I crushed an infant with a bolder. 's it bad that I could totally see Vader coming back to glass the planet as a "I'm putting it behind me" thing? The more you read in EU you also find that 'Kenobi" is sort of like "Smith". or "White" or 'Jones'. The new book points that out too. When he's introduced to people in this remote, one horse like frontier town, they ask him if he's related to like 10 different Kenobi's from around the planet. Now that makes a little more sense. Finished the first book of the trilogy, starting the second. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 17, 2014 1:13:22 GMT
Okay... first totally lolrandom question WRT actually running the RPG.
With respect to the actual Star Wars setting, because those of you who know me know authenticity is my bag, exactly how affordable is something like a ship or fighter capable of interplanetary and/or intersystem travel?
's a hyperspace-capable freighter or fighter something an ordinary civilian could get their hands on with a reasonable loan (like, say, a car), or is this the kind of thing that you only really come by if you're 1) rich, 2) doing something illegal, or 3) nicking it from a military force? From what Han and Lando reminisce about in Heir to the Empire, it sounds like the card game Han won the Falcon in was a heck of a high-stakes game, since Lando was willing to use a luxury starship to cover a bet. Dark Force Rising has Luke and co. grumbling about how an X-Wing isn't the sort of thing that a civilian can normally obtain, even through channels.
I'm sure my players are going to want to actually get around the GFFA, but I want to know if it's entirely containable to have them actually try to BUY a ship or fighters, or if this is something I can only realistically have them "acquire" by non-traditional means.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 17, 2014 2:08:30 GMT
No most civilians do not own a starship. Can they be bought? yes but they are a luxury item.....like a yacht or small plane to some degree. A loan would get you one. In fact typically some character's might actually start with one. I know the Smuggler and Tramp Freighter captain in d6 started with a ship and the associated loan to go with it.
As for the X-wing comment.....high performance fighters cost more than the typical new freighter.
Picture Lando and Han betting with small Cessna. That is probably the best analogy to use.
Cars in SW are more along the lines of land speeders/air speeders.
However, unless you are running an independent campaign of some kind, having ship is relatively simple. The rebellion, the empire or the republic gives it to you to use. This also allows you to assign different ships for different missions as needed.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 17, 2014 2:16:46 GMT
The trick is remembering that
1) There is a bank note, so the PCs better keep the money flowing to pay the bills on time, or there will be bounty hunters/repo agents on their tails.
or
2) That the ship belongs to the Republic, Rebellion, Empire, or whoever, and does NOT belong to the PCs. Which means excessive damage, or if it gets lost, stolen, or whatnot... the PCs have people they have to answer to, who will NOT be happy.
Also, yeah, Han was a HIGH STAKES gambler... remember, he once won a planet in a card game.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 17, 2014 4:24:43 GMT
Okay... first totally lolrandom question WRT actually running the RPG. With respect to the actual Star Wars setting, because those of you who know me know authenticity is my bag, exactly how affordable is something like a ship or fighter capable of interplanetary and/or intersystem travel? 's a hyperspace-capable freighter or fighter something an ordinary civilian could get their hands on with a reasonable loan (like, say, a car), or is this the kind of thing that you only really come by if you're 1) rich, 2) doing something illegal, or 3) nicking it from a military force? From what Han and Lando reminisce about in Heir to the Empire, it sounds like the card game Han won the Falcon in was a heck of a high-stakes game, since Lando was willing to use a luxury starship to cover a bet. Dark Force Rising has Luke and co. grumbling about how an X-Wing isn't the sort of thing that a civilian can normally obtain, even through channels. I'm sure my players are going to want to actually get around the GFFA, but I want to know if it's entirely containable to have them actually try to BUY a ship or fighters, or if this is something I can only realistically have them "acquire" by non-traditional means. The way I look at star freighters is... well. Sort of like you'd see "Big Rigs" or "Transfer trucks" Now. The small and medium ones equate to tranfer trucks. Large freighters would be like "SHIPS" like the big cargo/container ships we have in the oceans. Sure you can buy them (Transfer trucks) but they're $100,000s and have pretty high upkeep. You run the freight to pay for your fuel and the upkeep to run more freight. Most (Starships/Star Freighters) are not in 'private' hands. Most belong to corps, companies, rich folks, military, government. You can get one but you gotta save up/inherit them type thing. As pointed out 'Speeders" I.E. Flying cars are more the 'cars' of starwars. They can be clunky pinto types all the way up to hotrods. An Xwing would be like an F22 Raptor. It'd be really expensive and likely only sold to militaries/nations/planets. I mean you might be able to buy a jet fighter on the open market but likely not. You can start off working for one of those and 'buy your rig/ship' when you can pay it off. |
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 17, 2014 6:39:08 GMT
A stock YT1300 costs about 100K credits new, but only about 25K used.
Now, while that is the same "base" ship as the Falcon, the Falcon was HEAVILY modified (with a lot of illegal modifications to boot)
That's actually "reasonable" for a character to have a loan in order to have purchased. Now, between GM and player, figure out if that "loan" is to a Hutt, a member of the Exchange, the Rebel Alliance, or a bank somewhere.
Of course, if you DO get something that has modifications, be warned that depending on the era of play, you have to worry abou if those mods are legal or not.
Or if you buy one used, what modifications were done before, that you don't know about? It would really suck to buy a ship at auction, after it was repossessed, hit an Imperial Inspection, and them find a hidden compartment with illegal goods.
Also, if purchasing a used ship, think of "quirks" in the ship. Like, various systems fritz randomly, or the toilet flushes every time you engage the hyperspace. The more mods, the more quirks (a lot also depends on if the mods were "do it yourself" jobs, or professionally done at a shipyard)
Have fun with those "quirks". While they should be serious enough to justify the discount price, they should not be so serious that the ship is more of a problem than it's worth. Remember, even the Falcon had a lot of quirks (but it was HEAVILY modified).
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 17, 2014 9:15:07 GMT
There were charts for quirks and stuff in the Sega edition. Some were fun.
Some of the companies had their own +/-'s too. One might be a touch faster, one had parts you could find anywhere, one was more easily modified, etc.
I used both. Gives it more character. Turns your ship from "Transportation" to another member of your group.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 17, 2014 9:32:35 GMT
Top 4 reasons Correllian freighters are so well liked
1) Easily customizable
2) Good, solid construction
3) Fairly inexpensive
4) Pretty common, so parts are easy to get
I actually recommend looking at some of the old D6 ship guides and lists. The stats may have to be changed, but, they'll give you a good guide of size, crew, cargo space, passenger space, cost, weapons, etc etc.
In fact, you probably wouldn't have to do that much work. See what weapons it has, find the same weapon in whatever version you're running, and blamo, updated for use.
If you're using the new version of the SW game, this would let you have a lot more variety of ships than they've published (from what I understand)
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 1:16:28 GMT
Sorry for the delay, gents... things got a bit hectic in the merry old land of Auburn Hills, and I've been pulling 12 hour days.No most civilians do not own a starship. Can they be bought? yes but they are a luxury item.....like a yacht or small plane to some degree. A loan would get you one. In fact typically some character's might actually start with one. Okay, so we're talking something that's generally outside the scope of your average joe's fiscal portfolio. Ships are more a luxury item for businesses with good income and the idle rich. The way I look at star freighters is... well. Sort of like you'd see "Big Rigs" or "Transfer trucks" Now. The small and medium ones equate to tranfer trucks. Large freighters would be like "SHIPS" like the big cargo/container ships we have in the oceans. Sure you can buy them (Transfer trucks) but they're $100,000s and have pretty high upkeep. You run the freight to pay for your fuel and the upkeep to run more freight. Okay, that makes a decent amount of sense. Remember, I'm coming (principally) from a setting ( Macross) in which it's actually entirely possible for someone of moderate means or even a frigging vocational high school to own one or more variable fighters (ones stripped of weaponry, anyways). A stock YT1300 costs about 100K credits new, but only about 25K used. Now, while that is the same "base" ship as the Falcon, the Falcon was HEAVILY modified (with a lot of illegal modifications to boot) That's actually "reasonable" for a character to have a loan in order to have purchased. Now, between GM and player, figure out if that "loan" is to a Hutt, a member of the Exchange, the Rebel Alliance, or a bank somewhere. Now that raises an interesting question... is there a rough equivalency, in terms of purchasing power, between "credits" and a modern currency so I can get my head around what things should cost?
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 1:43:52 GMT
Well....a top end fighter like an x-wing costs 120 000 "credits" new.
A new YT-1300 stock (Unmodified Millennium Falcon) is 100 000.
An Imperial Star Destoyer Mk II is 145,670,000.
A new Land speeder, good model is 12 500 new.
Hope that helps you some for comparison sake.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 1:54:19 GMT
Well....a top end fighter like an x-wing costs 120 000 "credits" new. A new YT-1300 stock (Unmodified Millennium Falcon) is 100 000. An Imperial Star Destoyer Mk II is 145,670,000. A new Land speeder, good model is 12 500 new. Hope that helps you some for comparison sake. Could I potentially get an example a little further down the scale of cheapness... like, say, a reliable entry-level firearm or food item? It seems like a single credit is at least equivalent to several dollars... |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 18, 2014 2:15:24 GMT
I don't have my book on me but that might be a little low.
One should remember by the "Rebellion Era" I.E. the movies, that the Falcon is pretty old. Tech has hit a plateau in SW but still.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 2:16:03 GMT
A standard Blaster Pistol costs about 500 "credits"
standard comlink 100
tools 25-200
rent anywhere from 250-1000's per month
clothing 10's - 100s
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 14:32:45 GMT
I don't have my book on me but that might be a little low. One should remember by the "Rebellion Era" I.E. the movies, that the Falcon is pretty old. Tech has hit a plateau in SW but still. I'm about halfway into Dark Force Rising and, quite honestly, the impression I've gotten of technology in the Galaxy Far Far Away is that it's actually kind of rubbish. Wildly schizophrenic tech levels at best, completely inconsistent at worst. I thought that the closer a hyperdrive's power rating was to 0.0, the faster it was? These books talk about Star Destroyers and old Dreadnaughts routinely getting to 0.4, which is faster than the Millennium Falcon under that system. Being rather confused by this, I went and looked it up on Wookieepedia and they list the classes of ships in question as being Class 2.0 in hyperdrive... though they describe a ship like that only being able to cover a maximum of about 150ly (if it's really flooring it) in 47 hours, which is only about 27,976 times the speed of light. By the standards of, say, Star Trek that's still there-is-a-mosquito-shaped-hole-in-my-teeth fast, but it means traveling across the galaxy is a matter of YEARS, not hours or days as Wookieepedia claims... and that's an upper bound, because Han and Lando come right out and say that their estimate is an ideal-world scenario. To frame it in a perspective that's more my usual area of expertise, that's just shy of half the speed that a Macross fold system can achieve under almost-ideal field conditions (if enough energy could be stored, the Macross fold system could jump that distance in just a few minutes shy of 24 hours in near-ideal conditions). Then again, I'd probably also accuse Wookieepedia and/or the writers of laying the hyperbole and exaggeration on with a frigging backhoe after seeing the stated power outputs for some of these ships. The Imperial II-class star destroyer's generating 9.28 BILLION petawatts at peak output? What the sodding hell on those ships NEEDS that much power? They're depicted as being relatively slow and ponderous things, and their weapons aren't exactly intimidating by SF standards. They're armed with gas-dynamic lasers, for pity's sake, and those turbolasers never really evidence much actual destructive potential in the movies. Even Luke's X-Wing, which has lasers designed for an attack on a starship or other heavily-shielded fighter, are only ever described as "making a mess of the floor" when fired at close ranges inside a spaceport... and even near-misses don't seem to cause any harm to anyone. (Admittedly, I'll give them a certain amount of credit for using very humane weapons... blasters and lightsabers apparently cauterize the wounds they make, which is a good deal less cruel than bullets that punch a nice hole you can bleed out through even if the wound isn't actually fatal in and of itself.) Then again, I don't think anything's pegged by BS-meter quite so hard as the description of the lightsaber's power system... a closed-loop system with perfect efficiency? That's a million different kinds of impossible. If they can pull that off, a perpetual motion generator ought to be the sort of thing they power children's toys with. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 16:34:30 GMT
Well again keep in mind of the time the books were written. They have cleaned up much of those inconsistencies since in regards to the hyperdrives. Partly because of some inconsistencies that popped up in those books as you have already noticed. Of course also keep in mind, this is sci-fantasy not sci-fiction ala Star Trek etc. That alone should tell you it will take some serious liberties  |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 17:22:24 GMT
Well again keep in mind of the time the books were written. They have cleaned up much of those inconsistencies since in regards to the hyperdrives. Partly because of some inconsistencies that popped up in those books as you have already noticed. Of course also keep in mind, this is sci-fantasy not sci-fiction ala Star Trek etc. That alone should tell you it will take some serious liberties Eh... I don't know that I'd go so far as to grant Star Wars an exemption on the grounds of it being "science fantasy". Apart from the absurdities of scale in things like power output or efficiency, Star Wars's technology is far less "out there" and fanciful than Star Trek's, and Star Trek is usually considered soft science fiction. The only real pseudo-fantasy aspect of Star Wars that I've yet seen was the Force itself, and that's scientifically quantifiable in some respects... it's not really "magic" (anymore). The technology isn't run on magic or anything like that (though the Hyperspace entry does suggest hyperdrives used to be), and there's very little fantasy about any aspect of the series except the vague and halfhearted warrior-mysticism of the Jedi and Sith orders. An air of strained realism is to be expected in science fiction, fantasy, or the middle ground between them, but sometimes they're pushing the limits. I can buy the whole laser sword thing easily. I can buy that it's only really safe to use because the Jedi have limited ability in precognition. The thing that makes me sit up and go "What the hell?!" is the idea that the modern lightsaber is a laser sword built with a closed-loop energy system that has perfect efficiency. Not 99%... PERFECT. That's so many different kinds of impossible I'm not even sure where to start. Just the photon loss of the visible blade should be a drain on power... |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 17:25:48 GMT
I'll point back to the fact those books were before they really laid down any thing in way of a continuity/consistency policy or procedure. I can almost guarantee that Zahn would do some things differently if he were writing those books now.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 17:43:38 GMT
I'll point back to the fact those books were before they really laid down any thing in way of a continuity/consistency policy or procedure. I can almost guarantee that Zahn would do some things differently if he were writing those books now. Based on Wookieepedia, that excuses the hyperdrive thing... but not the lightsaber thing. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 17:46:37 GMT
Eh.. I chalk up to the fact they actually imbue the force into the weapon as part of it's creation.
Stop thinking so much man. LOL
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 17:51:10 GMT
Eh.. I chalk up to the fact they actually imbue the force into the weapon as part of it's creation. Stop thinking so much man. LOL No can do, I have a ruthlessly analytical mind. Plus I wanna actually be very familiar with the setting so none of my players can throw me a curveball. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 18:07:52 GMT
At this point I am pretty sure you have well out thought them in regards to star wars. LOL Besides, you always have me to fall back on when in doubt |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 18, 2014 22:27:38 GMT
Eh.. I chalk up to the fact they actually imbue the force into the weapon as part of it's creation. Then explain the factory-made ones? At this point I am pretty sure you have well out thought them in regards to star wars. LOL Besides, you always have me to fall back on when in doubt Dunno 'bout that... I've barely grasped what the hell is going on in this Thrawn trilogy. Thrawn's like every Light Yamagi meme given precognitive life. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 18, 2014 23:48:43 GMT
There is no such thing as factory made lightsabres
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Post by MacrossMike on Jan 19, 2014 1:13:14 GMT
There is no such thing as factory made lightsabres Eh... you sure about that? I just checked Wookieepedia and my memory ain't faulty, the Young Jedi Knights books did mention mass-produced lightsabers were a thing. Specifically, a thing made for, and used by, the Shadow Academy's Dark Jedi trainees. |
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