Bat-family style heroes.

[ninjabunny]

Wait what? I am not a DC fan so my knowledge is limited, but I had never heard that about Dick or the court of owls.

[13eowulf]

Jan 15, 2014 22:58:58 GMT ninjabunny said:

Wait what? I am not a DC fan so my knowledge is limited, but I had never heard that about Dick or the court of owls.

It is very recent. For reference:


Revealed in the New 52 Batman series, Haly's circus had a deal with the Court of Owls, a longtime gang that was ruling Gotham from the shadows for years. Their deal was that Haly's would exhibit their youth to the Court and the gang would choose one to succeed their current Talon. Grayson, as a child, was chosen to become their assassin and was even unknowingly given an electrum alloy tooth with the Court's marking in it. But, after the death of his parents, Bruce Wayne adopted Grayson before he was handed over to the Owls.
dc.wikia.com/wiki/Haly%27s_Circus

dc.wikia.com/wiki/Court_of_Owls

dc.wikia.com/wiki/Nightwing:_Traps_and_Trapezes

[Janus]

I think this is the most in depth look at the Bat family I have ever read... with some exceptions (thank God the mutant thing was dropped, really??!?!?!?!?!?).

However, one important thing. Stop referring to Batman as anything other than Batman. Bruce Wayne is no more who he is than is Matches Malone is. Every comic straight to his first appearance acknowledges this.

Thanks

[13eowulf]

Jan 16, 2014 2:34:09 GMT Janus said:

I think this is the most in depth look at the Bat family I have ever read... with some exceptions (thank God the mutant thing was dropped, really??!?!?!?!?!?).

However, one important thing. Stop referring to Batman as anything other than Batman. Bruce Wayne is no more who he is than is Matches Malone is. Every comic straight to his first appearance acknowledges this.

Thanks

I *think* I have done so, or tried to, bringing up 'Bruce' only when the topic of others who have taken the mantle of the Bat comes op.

Although.... Should we start talking about alternate Batmen? Like Elseworlds? or possible futures (Batman Beyond, the main universe comics one)?

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 2:50:03 GMT 13eowulf said:

Jan 16, 2014 2:34:09 GMT Janus said:

I think this is the most in depth look at the Bat family I have ever read... with some exceptions (thank God the mutant thing was dropped, really??!?!?!?!?!?).

However, one important thing. Stop referring to Batman as anything other than Batman. Bruce Wayne is no more who he is than is Matches Malone is. Every comic straight to his first appearance acknowledges this.

Thanks

I *think* I have done so, or tried to, bringing up 'Bruce' only when the topic of others who have taken the mantle of the Bat comes op.

Although.... Should we start talking about alternate Batmen? Like Elseworlds? or possible futures (Batman Beyond, the main universe comics one)?

I like the Elseworlds, but I tend to leave those out of my Bat-history unless they have integrated into canon.  I like Batman Beyond, but as for Future Batman I really leave him as cartoon future not comic canon (jeez, now I sound like Star Wars canon).  Luckily, I was looking for my Batman/Spiderman crossover and I found all of my Elseworlds, gonna have to reread them now.

[13eowulf]

Jan 16, 2014 3:09:04 GMT Janus said:

Jan 16, 2014 2:50:03 GMT 13eowulf said:

I *think* I have done so, or tried to, bringing up 'Bruce' only when the topic of others who have taken the mantle of the Bat comes op.

Although.... Should we start talking about alternate Batmen? Like Elseworlds? or possible futures (Batman Beyond, the main universe comics one)?

I like the Elseworlds, but I tend to leave those out of my Bat-history unless they have integrated into canon.  I like Batman Beyond, but as for Future Batman I really leave him as cartoon future not comic canon (jeez, now I sound like Star Wars canon).  Luckily, I was looking for my Batman/Spiderman crossover and I found all of my Elseworlds, gonna have to reread them now.

I recently re-read Brotherhood of the Bat and League of Batmen as a result of this thread.

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 3:21:36 GMT 13eowulf said:

Jan 16, 2014 3:09:04 GMT Janus said:

I like the Elseworlds, but I tend to leave those out of my Bat-history unless they have integrated into canon.  I like Batman Beyond, but as for Future Batman I really leave him as cartoon future not comic canon (jeez, now I sound like Star Wars canon).  Luckily, I was looking for my Batman/Spiderman crossover and I found all of my Elseworlds, gonna have to reread them now.

I recently re-read Brotherhood of the Bat and League of Batmen as a result of this thread.

I re-read Batman/Spiderman (both Marvel and DC), the 50th anniversary, and issue 600, plus Detective 27.  I have the Generations 1 and 2 ready to read as well.  I reread Hiketia a while back it is still good.  And the Justice League Divided we Fall collection (takes place after Ra's enacted Batman's contingencies against the heroes).  I almost re-read the 4 issue Ra's Al Ghoul storyline, but decided not to.

[Sci-Fi]

Jan 16, 2014 2:34:09 GMT Janus said:

I think this is the most in depth look at the Bat family I have ever read... with some exceptions (thank God the mutant thing was dropped, really??!?!?!?!?!?).

However, one important thing. Stop referring to Batman as anything other than Batman. Bruce Wayne is no more who he is than is Matches Malone is. Every comic straight to his first appearance acknowledges this.

Thanks

.... not trying to be funny or anything, but... they're the same guy. Bruce is Batman. (Well he was. I think one of the Nightwing/robins is in the cowl now) But when we're talking about Batman we're talking about Bruce Wayne. He's batman even out side the cowl.

[13eowulf]

Jan 16, 2014 5:08:19 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Jan 16, 2014 2:34:09 GMT Janus said:

I think this is the most in depth look at the Bat family I have ever read... with some exceptions (thank God the mutant thing was dropped, really??!?!?!?!?!?).

However, one important thing. Stop referring to Batman as anything other than Batman. Bruce Wayne is no more who he is than is Matches Malone is. Every comic straight to his first appearance acknowledges this.

Thanks

.... not trying to be funny or anything, but... they're the same guy. Bruce is Batman. (Well he was. I think one of the Nightwing/robins is in the cowl now) But when we're talking about Batman we're talking about Bruce Wayne. He's batman even out side the cowl.

What (I believe) Janus is referring to is the self identification of the individual in-universe. Batman considers himself to be Batman, and, in the cowl, is his true self, where as 'Bruce Wayne' is more of a mask then the cape and cowl he dons to fight crime. Psychologically speaking Batman is the man, Bruce Wayne is the facade, the persona. Conversely if looking at, say, the Flash, Wally West is the man, the Flash is a persona. Or the Webslinger. Peter Parker is the man, Spider-Man is the persona.

I hope that makes sense to other people, not just me.

[damianmagecraft]

Jan 16, 2014 5:14:39 GMT 13eowulf said:

Jan 16, 2014 5:08:19 GMT Sci-Fi said:

.... not trying to be funny or anything, but... they're the same guy. Bruce is Batman. (Well he was. I think one of the Nightwing/robins is in the cowl now) But when we're talking about Batman we're talking about Bruce Wayne. He's batman even out side the cowl.

What (I believe) Janus is referring to is the self identification of the individual in-universe. Batman considers himself to be Batman, and, in the cowl, is his true self, where as 'Bruce Wayne' is more of a mask then the cape and cowl he dons to fight crime. Psychologically speaking Batman is the man, Bruce Wayne is the facade, the persona. Conversely if looking at, say, the Flash, Wally West is the man, the Flash is a persona. Or the Webslinger. Peter Parker is the man, Spider-Man is the persona.

I hope that makes sense to other people, not just me.

It makes sense...
I still refer to him as Bruce however to avoid confusion.
There have been what? 4 to wear the cowl now?

[13eowulf]

Jan 16, 2014 5:18:47 GMT damianmagecraft said:

Jan 16, 2014 5:14:39 GMT 13eowulf said:

What (I believe) Janus is referring to is the self identification of the individual in-universe. Batman considers himself to be Batman, and, in the cowl, is his true self, where as 'Bruce Wayne' is more of a mask then the cape and cowl he dons to fight crime. Psychologically speaking Batman is the man, Bruce Wayne is the facade, the persona. Conversely if looking at, say, the Flash, Wally West is the man, the Flash is a persona. Or the Webslinger. Peter Parker is the man, Spider-Man is the persona.

I hope that makes sense to other people, not just me.

It makes sense...
I still refer to him as Bruce however to avoid confusion.
There have been what? 4 to wear the cowl now?

Two others endorsed by the original, Jean Paul, and Dick.

Jason, Tim, and Damian all took up the cowl after Bruce's death in 'Battle for the Cowl'

And there have been several imposters, and a failed experiment by a shadow organization that created 3 flawed replacements in "Three Ghosts of the Batman"

[Janus]

Batman is now back to the original Batman, at least in the Batman comic and in Detective. Batman and Twoface (which was Batman and Robin) is the original Batman. For a while Dick was playing Batman, but Batman is back to being Batman. He has been around for quite a while now, way before Damian Wayne was killed off. So to recap currently there is only one Batman. The Bat-family itself had a unique falling out last year when they learned that Batman had not told them that it was possible that Joker knew who they were because at one point he had gotten into the cave (this happened around the same time Joker had his face removed, don't ask). So unless my comic obsession is years behind (and I know it is not) then Batman is Batman and Dick Grayson is back to being whoever the heck he wants to be (but Batman it is not, he is not comfortable in that role). So there is no longer need to think there will be confusion.

So just to recap, Batman is Batman. He has been for at least 2 years now. The storyline where Batman was not Batman has ended and it was sort of disappointing given the immense build up. Damian Wayne is dead, killed, no longer breathing, deceased, kaput, fertalizer, no more, fin, living challenged. That started its own storyline and obsession with Batman, that is also pretty much done.

Any questions?

[Sci-Fi]

Actually wasn't Damian Wayne killed,(by a clone of himself) but his corpse taken by the same cult/assassins with access to a Lazarus pit?

But thank you for clarification on the Bat/notbat/Bat thing.

[13eowulf]

Jan 16, 2014 17:10:42 GMT Janus said:

Batman is now back to the original Batman, at least in the Batman comic and in Detective. Batman and Twoface (which was Batman and Robin) is the original Batman. For a while Dick was playing Batman, but Batman is back to being Batman. He has been around for quite a while now, way before Damian Wayne was killed off. So to recap currently there is only one Batman. The Bat-family itself had a unique falling out last year when they learned that Batman had not told them that it was possible that Joker knew who they were because at one point he had gotten into the cave (this happened around the same time Joker had his face removed, don't ask). So unless my comic obsession is years behind (and I know it is not) then Batman is Batman and Dick Grayson is back to being whoever the heck he wants to be (but Batman it is not, he is not comfortable in that role). So there is no longer need to think there will be confusion.

So just to recap, Batman is Batman. He has been for at least 2 years now. The storyline where Batman was not Batman has ended and it was sort of disappointing given the immense build up. Damian Wayne is dead, killed, no longer breathing, deceased, kaput, fertalizer, no more, fin, living challenged. That started its own storyline and obsession with Batman, that is also pretty much done.

Any questions?

A few: First a comment: you seem to be forgetting the Batman of Japan, who is an endorsed Batman, and uses the name Batman, and can legitimately be called Batman. Dont you just love Batman Inc.?  

Second: As a group we are not all caught up, especially regarding the whole New 52. When dealing with a wide cross-section of continuity as we are it is in fact necessary to specify. Further it does no harm to refer to him as Bruce. None at all. And it saves on confusion. Because we are not talking about the in-character psychosis of the character, we are identifying the character. Calling him the 'crazy bat themed vigilante' is perfectly acceptable. Why does this offend you?

Third: Did you really think 'laying it down' like this is gonna actually stop anyone from calling him Bruce, especially given the media-saturation around the character?

Fourth: Do you really think that is the end of Damian? The permanent end? Name three significant comic book characters who have stayed dead.

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 17:25:53 GMT 13eowulf said:

Jan 16, 2014 17:10:42 GMT Janus said:

Batman is now back to the original Batman, at least in the Batman comic and in Detective. Batman and Twoface (which was Batman and Robin) is the original Batman. For a while Dick was playing Batman, but Batman is back to being Batman. He has been around for quite a while now, way before Damian Wayne was killed off. So to recap currently there is only one Batman. The Bat-family itself had a unique falling out last year when they learned that Batman had not told them that it was possible that Joker knew who they were because at one point he had gotten into the cave (this happened around the same time Joker had his face removed, don't ask). So unless my comic obsession is years behind (and I know it is not) then Batman is Batman and Dick Grayson is back to being whoever the heck he wants to be (but Batman it is not, he is not comfortable in that role). So there is no longer need to think there will be confusion.

So just to recap, Batman is Batman. He has been for at least 2 years now. The storyline where Batman was not Batman has ended and it was sort of disappointing given the immense build up. Damian Wayne is dead, killed, no longer breathing, deceased, kaput, fertalizer, no more, fin, living challenged. That started its own storyline and obsession with Batman, that is also pretty much done.

Any questions?

A few: First a comment: you seem to be forgetting the Batman of Japan, who is an endorsed Batman, and uses the name Batman, and can legitimately be called Batman. Dont you just love Batman Inc.?  

Second: As a group we are not all caught up, especially regarding the whole New 52. When dealing with a wide cross-section of continuity as we are it is in fact necessary to specify. Further it does no harm to refer to him as Bruce. None at all. And it saves on confusion. Because we are not talking about the in-character psychosis of the character, we are identifying the character. Calling him the 'crazy bat themed vigilante' is perfectly acceptable. Why does this offend you?

Third: Did you really think 'laying it down' like this is gonna actually stop anyone from calling him Bruce, especially given the media-saturation around the character?

Fourth: Do you really think that is the end of Damian? The permanent end? Name three significant comic book characters who have stayed dead.

I did not forget the Batman Inc.  I also did not forget it ended in the middle of last year so...  Not really an issue.

2.While it does not harm to call him "Bruce" it is also not really acknowledging the character.  You can say Dick was wearing the cowl or Azreal wore the cowl, but it is never Bruce wears the cowl because in reality it is Batman wears the Bruce.

3.  Of course it is not.  Haters gotta hate.

4.  Uncle Ben for Marvel (prolly others, but I am a DC fan), Aquagirl (killed in Crisis on Infinite Earths) John Paul Valley Azrael (there is a new one), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord, shot in Head), Dove (Don Hall, another from Crisis), Vigilante (Adrian Chase, the Original...suicide, wish I had that issue) just to name a few in DC that have stayed dead.  Not sure how you quantify significant, but Uncle Ben of course, Azreal had his own book, Ted Kord as well, Don Hall of course.  Not many people remember Aquagirl or Vigilante so... do what you will with them.  And until they bring him back Damian Wayne is also dead.  Up until a few years ago I would have included Barry Allen, but I never thought he died in Crisis anyway so his "death" never counted.  The unfortunate thing about comic death is if the book gets retconned so that the event never happened.  The Babs was paralyzed, we all saw her, those of us lucky enough got the book it happened in.  Years later after a Brainiac infection she can sort of wiggle her toes.  Now in the New 52 she was never actually paralyzed, the bullet just got really darn close.  So what does that do for character death?  Personally I think "that" character died.  When they do a retelling such as the new 52 all bets are off.  Character was not killed unless someone mentions in the book that character came back (which by the way is a nice 4th wall I like to see the characters break as a joke in the books themselves).

Mostly though it is just fun to think of ways to say someone is dead.  I am still waiting for Batman to find a way to bring him back.  I mean come on, they have pretty much told us (without using the words) that they are coming back.  Ra's has them (them as in Talia who is currently dead and Damian... also on the currently dead list).  So while I acknowledge he is dead and will more than likely come back, I also like to think of him as not among the living, no longer part of the land of the awake and aware, fossil fuel, a future archaeology find.

[damianmagecraft]

I thought Kord returned from the dead as villain for a short time.

[Sci-Fi]

Still. Damian's body was taken by the group of assassin's that are renown for and use the Lazarus pit to bring people back wasn't he?

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 18:17:33 GMT damianmagecraft said:

I thought Kord returned from the dead as villain for a short time.

Meh, sort of.  It was during Blackest Night when the black rings animated all of the dead characters and tried to get any character who had died and had come back like Green Arrow and Hal Jordan.  That being said the new 52 will be bringing him back from the "dead".  However as this is a reboot I do not consider it returning him to life unless they specifically state hey welcome back.

[damianmagecraft]

Jan 16, 2014 18:20:19 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Still. Damian's body was taken by the group of assassin's that are renown for and use the Lazarus pit to bring people back wasn't he?

yeah. I dont expect him to stay dead...
Hell they couldnt keep Jason dead and he was murdered by popular vote.

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 18:20:19 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Still. Damian's body was taken by the group of assassin's that are renown for and use the Lazarus pit to bring people back wasn't he?

Yes.  And he will be cloned (already been done, who do you think killed him in the first place).

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 18:26:32 GMT damianmagecraft said:

Jan 16, 2014 18:20:19 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Still. Damian's body was taken by the group of assassin's that are renown for and use the Lazarus pit to bring people back wasn't he?

yeah. I dont expect him to stay dead...
Hell they couldnt keep Jason dead and he was murdered by popular vote.

Yeah I always called BS on that one.  Too many collectors "killed" him off just to make that issue worth some cold hard cash.  I personally know a guy who called "300" times (I am guessing just a lot or told his friends to) on the kill him dead hotline.  So yeah not buying that everyone wanted him dead.  I could have cared less either way.

[Sci-Fi]

Jan 16, 2014 18:26:48 GMT Janus said:

Jan 16, 2014 18:20:19 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Still. Damian's body was taken by the group of assassin's that are renown for and use the Lazarus pit to bring people back wasn't he?

Yes.  And he will be cloned (already been done, who do you think killed him in the first place).

I actually already pointed that out. I think you miss the first time I asked. lol

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 18:36:03 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Jan 16, 2014 18:26:48 GMT Janus said:

Yes.  And he will be cloned (already been done, who do you think killed him in the first place).

I actually already pointed that out. I think you miss the first time I asked. lol

Yeah, if you made mention of that I missed it.  Must have been a few pages back.  I really got lost in the whole mutant/Batman discussion.

[Sci-Fi]

No.. just 10 posts up. Right after yours. but it's all good.

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 19:00:17 GMT Sci-Fi said:

No.. just 10 posts up. Right after yours. but it's all good.

10 posts?  That is too far back.  I only read 3 posts back.  That way I seem out of touch and in touch all at the same time.  Very mysterious.

I am BATMAN!

[13eowulf]

Jan 16, 2014 18:10:14 GMT Janus said:

Jan 16, 2014 17:25:53 GMT 13eowulf said:

A few: First a comment: you seem to be forgetting the Batman of Japan, who is an endorsed Batman, and uses the name Batman, and can legitimately be called Batman. Dont you just love Batman Inc.?  

Second: As a group we are not all caught up, especially regarding the whole New 52. When dealing with a wide cross-section of continuity as we are it is in fact necessary to specify. Further it does no harm to refer to him as Bruce. None at all. And it saves on confusion. Because we are not talking about the in-character psychosis of the character, we are identifying the character. Calling him the 'crazy bat themed vigilante' is perfectly acceptable. Why does this offend you?

Third: Did you really think 'laying it down' like this is gonna actually stop anyone from calling him Bruce, especially given the media-saturation around the character?

Fourth: Do you really think that is the end of Damian? The permanent end? Name three significant comic book characters who have stayed dead.

I did not forget the Batman Inc.  I also did not forget it ended in the middle of last year so...  Not really an issue.

2.While it does not harm to call him "Bruce" it is also not really acknowledging the character.  You can say Dick was wearing the cowl or Azreal wore the cowl, but it is never Bruce wears the cowl because in reality it is Batman wears the Bruce.

3.  Of course it is not.  Haters gotta hate.

4.  Uncle Ben for Marvel (prolly others, but I am a DC fan), Aquagirl (killed in Crisis on Infinite Earths) John Paul Valley Azrael (there is a new one), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord, shot in Head), Dove (Don Hall, another from Crisis), Vigilante (Adrian Chase, the Original...suicide, wish I had that issue) just to name a few in DC that have stayed dead.  Not sure how you quantify significant, but Uncle Ben of course, Azreal had his own book, Ted Kord as well, Don Hall of course.  Not many people remember Aquagirl or Vigilante so... do what you will with them.  And until they bring him back Damian Wayne is also dead.  Up until a few years ago I would have included Barry Allen, but I never thought he died in Crisis anyway so his "death" never counted.  The unfortunate thing about comic death is if the book gets retconned so that the event never happened.  The Babs was paralyzed, we all saw her, those of us lucky enough got the book it happened in.  Years later after a Brainiac infection she can sort of wiggle her toes.  Now in the New 52 she was never actually paralyzed, the bullet just got really darn close.  So what does that do for character death?  Personally I think "that" character died.  When they do a retelling such as the new 52 all bets are off.  Character was not killed unless someone mentions in the book that character came back (which by the way is a nice 4th wall I like to see the characters break as a joke in the books themselves).

Mostly though it is just fun to think of ways to say someone is dead.  I am still waiting for Batman to find a way to bring him back.  I mean come on, they have pretty much told us (without using the words) that they are coming back.  Ra's has them (them as in Talia who is currently dead and Damian... also on the currently dead list).  So while I acknowledge he is dead and will more than likely come back, I also like to think of him as not among the living, no longer part of the land of the awake and aware, fossil fuel, a future archaeology find.

1. The book series ended, but the organization and characters carry on. So still an issue.



2. That is remarkably dismissive of the majority of people.

3. It isnt hating, it just isnt uberhardcore devition

4. If you hadnt said Uncle Ben I would have been disappointed. Tula is back. Kord is back. Don Hall is unique, the Black Lantern Rings were denied access to his grave by an unknown power. Valley is still dead, but while he had his own book I am not sure he rises to the level of 'significant', yes he was significant in Batman history. But Significant I would say means appearances outside comics, or general public awareness of the character. Babs never died, so shouldnt be on the list. Barry Allen has returned a few times. Vigilante I would say is a relatively minor character. And it was suicide.

[Sci-Fi]

Jan 16, 2014 19:26:44 GMT Janus said:

Jan 16, 2014 19:00:17 GMT Sci-Fi said:

No.. just 10 posts up. Right after yours. but it's all good.

10 posts?  That is too far back.  I only read 3 posts back.  That way I seem out of touch and in touch all at the same time.  Very mysterious.

I am BATMAN!

Well it -was- directly after and relating to, your post.

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 19:27:17 GMT 13eowulf said:

Jan 16, 2014 18:10:14 GMT Janus said:

I did not forget the Batman Inc.  I also did not forget it ended in the middle of last year so...  Not really an issue.

2.While it does not harm to call him "Bruce" it is also not really acknowledging the character.  You can say Dick was wearing the cowl or Azreal wore the cowl, but it is never Bruce wears the cowl because in reality it is Batman wears the Bruce.

3.  Of course it is not.  Haters gotta hate.

4.  Uncle Ben for Marvel (prolly others, but I am a DC fan), Aquagirl (killed in Crisis on Infinite Earths) John Paul Valley Azrael (there is a new one), Blue Beetle (Ted Kord, shot in Head), Dove (Don Hall, another from Crisis), Vigilante (Adrian Chase, the Original...suicide, wish I had that issue) just to name a few in DC that have stayed dead.  Not sure how you quantify significant, but Uncle Ben of course, Azreal had his own book, Ted Kord as well, Don Hall of course.  Not many people remember Aquagirl or Vigilante so... do what you will with them.  And until they bring him back Damian Wayne is also dead.  Up until a few years ago I would have included Barry Allen, but I never thought he died in Crisis anyway so his "death" never counted.  The unfortunate thing about comic death is if the book gets retconned so that the event never happened.  The Babs was paralyzed, we all saw her, those of us lucky enough got the book it happened in.  Years later after a Brainiac infection she can sort of wiggle her toes.  Now in the New 52 she was never actually paralyzed, the bullet just got really darn close.  So what does that do for character death?  Personally I think "that" character died.  When they do a retelling such as the new 52 all bets are off.  Character was not killed unless someone mentions in the book that character came back (which by the way is a nice 4th wall I like to see the characters break as a joke in the books themselves).

Mostly though it is just fun to think of ways to say someone is dead.  I am still waiting for Batman to find a way to bring him back.  I mean come on, they have pretty much told us (without using the words) that they are coming back.  Ra's has them (them as in Talia who is currently dead and Damian... also on the currently dead list).  So while I acknowledge he is dead and will more than likely come back, I also like to think of him as not among the living, no longer part of the land of the awake and aware, fossil fuel, a future archaeology find.

1. The book series ended, but the organization and characters carry on. So still an issue.



2. That is remarkably dismissive of the majority of people.

3. It isnt hating, it just isnt uberhardcore devition

4. If you hadnt said Uncle Ben I would have been disappointed. Tula is back. Kord is back. Don Hall is unique, the Black Lantern Rings were denied access to his grave by an unknown power. Valley is still dead, but while he had his own book I am not sure he rises to the level of 'significant', yes he was significant in Batman history. But Significant I would say means appearances outside comics, or general public awareness of the character. Babs never died, so shouldnt be on the list. Barry Allen has returned a few times. Vigilante I would say is a relatively minor character. And it was suicide.

1.  Only if we acknowledge them as being Batman, but to be honest they really fall into who they are really.  When I want to mean Dick Grayson Batman I will say Dick Grayson or just Dick, same with Azreal.  Now both wore the mantle of the Bat, but they were not Batman.  Even if Batman acknowledged Bruce Wayne being his true self, he would still be Batman while the others are still Dick Grayson.  A better way would be to say for a while Nightwing was playing Batman.  He was not Batman, he was filling in.  Batman is Batman, if we take all of his aliases out he is still Batman.  How would we say it is this Batman or that Batman when referring to the original?  Just by saying Batman.

2.  Not sure how my answer is dismissive.  I did not say there opinion does not matter.  Just saying for clarity sake that Batman is Batman.  When it is Dick playing Batman we never say oh hey he is Batman, we say that is Dick in the costume.  We never really have to say Bruce is in the costume just because he has always been identified with Batman that there really is not a need to point that out.  Just my opinion, I would not say Bruce but instead say Dick or Azreal, etc.

3.  Not a thing like that, just respecting Batman by acknowledging the man he is.

4.  I was not going to say Ben just because he is Marvel and I was really just going to do DC, but it was death in comics not just DC.  AS far as I know Kord is still dead.  Again a reboot of the series does not count as a character coming back from the dead as reboots generally redo the character so that they are not the same person (case in point Green Arrow in the new 52, same name, but totally different).  Azreal had impacts on other titles, mostly Bat comics, but he was significant for a while.  I mentioned Vigilante was suicide as well as saying not many people remember him.  I only used Bab's as an example of rebooting/retconning.  I remember Barry's death and thinking to myself he is not dead, just moved too fast to see (which I think he joined the speedforce so sort of correct), but yes he is alive.  Aquagirl is also rebooted, so while same name and alterego not really the same thing.  New 52 storyline they have now I consider to not have to hold true to the previous comics that came before just because it seems DC is trying to update the characters in a whole new age, so not really raising the dead IMO.  Jason Todd or Bucky is a better example of back from the dead as in the story line they acknowledge they "died" and due to this or that they are now back to life.  Now then if you mean stay dead and never are a part of the storylne after that death, then even Uncle Ben does not count because of the reboots and new series of Spiderman.  

[Janus]

Jan 16, 2014 19:35:54 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Jan 16, 2014 19:26:44 GMT Janus said:

10 posts?  That is too far back.  I only read 3 posts back.  That way I seem out of touch and in touch all at the same time.  Very mysterious.

I am BATMAN!

Well it -was- directly after and relating to, your post.

Yes, but someone posted right after you did, so you know...  oops!

Sorry I did not catch that.  I saw Damian's post going but, but , but and did not realize/forgot you had made mention of it before.  At work so level of concentration is hit or miss.

[Sci-Fi]

And you say you're batman....