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Post by yilbber on Jan 9, 2014 16:53:15 GMT
Nightwing really isn't hard to model, but he does have training in Alien technology, so he should have some form of those Xenoskills from AUGG. considering Bruce's involvement with the original JL we could also claim the same of him... I think the skills in the main book should be sufficient for Dick. Nightwing unlike batman spent most of his career With the Titans and has frequently gone off world with them. |
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 17:11:06 GMT
On a Related note... While I was reading up on the Genius/Mastermind for Bruce. I came across a blurb that says we could allow (if so inclined) for other classes to select some of the Mental disciplines. (or treat them as minor powers) I am not fond of making them available to powered characters. But... Making select ones available to the other "non-powered" classes does appeal to me. Like the speed reading or analytical mind for the Super Sleuth, the Combat trance (and others) for the PT, etc... What do you guys think? I think it is an interesting idea, I would actually like to see some rules for allowing that... |
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Post by yilbber on Jan 9, 2014 18:31:08 GMT
I would probably treat it like the sorcerous proficiencies for magic characters, trade in 1-2 skills for them, and limit them to one every x amount of levels.
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 9, 2014 19:26:28 GMT
Tim Drake founded the teen titans not Dick who became Nightwing.
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Post by Ysabiau on Jan 9, 2014 19:27:47 GMT
Not just speed reading, but total recall as well. Some people have amazing memories that allow them to recall almost anything they've ever read or heard, and Batman (and Sherlock) seem to have this ability.
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 19:32:04 GMT
Tim Drake founded the teen titans not Dick who became Nightwing. Do you mean like, overall, in general? Or are specifically referring to the New 52 timeline that is still a relatively recent reboot? Cause in The Brave and the Bold #54, July 1964, it was Dick Grayson, while he was still Robin. Yes Dick later went on to become Nightwing (and have a crisis of uniforms for a while), he also was Batman for a while too. |
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 9, 2014 21:16:01 GMT
Tim Drake founded the teen titans not Dick who became Nightwing. Do you mean like, overall, in general? Or are specifically referring to the New 52 timeline that is still a relatively recent reboot? Cause in The Brave and the Bold #54, July 1964, it was Dick Grayson, while he was still Robin. Yes Dick later went on to become Nightwing (and have a crisis of uniforms for a while), he also was Batman for a while too. later reboot of teen titans have Tim Drake as the founding robin. |
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 21:59:15 GMT
Do you mean like, overall, in general? Or are specifically referring to the New 52 timeline that is still a relatively recent reboot? Cause in The Brave and the Bold #54, July 1964, it was Dick Grayson, while he was still Robin. Yes Dick later went on to become Nightwing (and have a crisis of uniforms for a while), he also was Batman for a while too. later reboot of teen titans have Tim Drake as the founding robin. In the latest timeline Tim did organize the current Titans, but it was as Red Robin, not Robin, who was Damian at that time. Although I do think that Damian is now gone, after having switched to Redbird for a while. Does anyone know if there is a current Robin? |
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Post by yilbber on Jan 9, 2014 22:05:20 GMT
Titans have been around since the 80s. Nightwing was the leader of it, and passed the helm to Timothy when Timothy decided to stop being Batman's sidekick.
I have no idea who does what in the Earth 2 version of batman.
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 22:13:13 GMT
Titans have been around since the 80s. Nightwing was the leader of it, and passed the helm to Timothy when Timothy decided to stop being Batman's sidekick. I have no idea who does what in the Earth 2 version of batman. The 60s, not the 80s, the 60s, and we are not talking Earth 2, we are talking the Prime/Main universe referred to as The New 52 or 'Prime Earth' that resulted from the 2011 Flashpoint event, and is the current and official main universe. Although Dick does remain Robin in the Post-Flashpoint 'New 52' version of Earth-2 (not to be confused with the pre-crisis Earth-Two, which contained the 'Golden Age', or the JLA: Earth Two, which ressurected the formerly Earth-Three Crime Society for the Post-Crisis timeline), but not much has yet been told on that story, nor has any mention yet been made of the Titans, they may not even exist in that world. ((You wanna discuss DC timelines, I can play that game.)) |
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Post by yilbber on Jan 9, 2014 22:13:50 GMT
It was also Dick Grayson in (Animated Versions) Teen Titans GO! and Young Justice, till season 2 had That Robin become Nightwing and Timothy drake takeover.
Jason todd was Red Hood in that continuity. According to Wikkipedia there were some 10+ odd teams of Titans, but Dick Grayson was the original member. Then he passed it on to Jason Todd, then Timothy Drake, and then other teams were Created.I believe you are referring to 2005 Reboot and the new 52 era where it's red robin.
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 22:24:43 GMT
It was also Dick Grayson in (Animated Versions) Teen Titans GO! and Young Justice, till season 2 had That Robin become Nightwing and Timothy drake takeover. Jason todd was Red Hood in that continuity. According to Wikkipedia there were some 10+ odd teams of Titans, but Dick Grayson was the original member. Then he passed it on to Jason Todd, then Timothy Drake, and then other teams were Created.I believe you are referring to 2005 Reboot and the new 52 era where it's red robin. Teen Titans GO! ? Really? Firstly that series is a continuation of the DC nation New Teen Titan shorts, which itself is a continuation of the 2003 Teen Titans animated series, which intentionally and purposefully obfuscated the identity of that Robin. Further while Robin was the leader in that series there was never any 'founding' episode, they started as a team. The issue of founder is never addressed. The Young Justice show is about a team called Young Justice, based on, get this, a comic team called young justice, who were (despite confusion to the contrary) NOT Teen Titans. Further they were not explicitly founded by Robin. Additionally, while Dick has been a member, and in fact most every Robin (except for Stephanie) have been members of one incarnation of Teen Titans or anther this does not explicitly make Dick the founder of the Current Canon Timeline's Teen Titans. And what is being referred to is the New 52 timeline that started in 2011, no the post Infinite Crisis maxi-series titled '52' published from 2006-2007. |
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Post by yilbber on Jan 9, 2014 22:35:37 GMT
Titans Go! just covered the preCrisis Adventures of the Titans, in a silly way. those things still sorta happened.
Teen Titans/Titans go! are the same crap really.
badly drawn but amusing retells of Old precrisis stories.
And while young Justice (whose actual membership is nothing like the YJ comics or Titans) still has Dick going offworld more often then Batman Does.
furthernote: the Titans TV series on CW will be borrowing from Young Justice For It's Lineup, (Kurt Conner and Me'gann.)
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 22:50:12 GMT
Titans Go! just covered the preCrisis Adventures of the Titans, in a silly way. those things still sorta happened. Teen Titans/Titans go! are the same crap really. badly drawn but amusing retells of Old precrisis stories. And while young Justice (whose actual membership is nothing like the YJ comics or Titans) still has Dick going offworld more often then Batman Does. furthernote: the Titans TV series on CW will be borrowing from Young Justice For It's Lineup, (Kurt Conner and Me'gann.) Not, Titans Go! Is a completely separate and unique timeline that continues the Teen Titans animated series continuity. It has no relation to the former or current main comic book continuities. Young Justice, particularly Season Two, has Batman off world more that Dick, and further shares nothing of Batman's history (not to mention the 5 year gap between the two seasons). So for all you know Batman was off world thousands of times, and Dick's only off-world jaunts are on-screen, so, a hand full. And both series draw from the main universe continuity. The Teen Titans Go! Series, like all series that came before it, draw from the main universe, as to character use, and team membership. Similarities between the membership of teams in parallel shows is due to drawing from the same source material. Also, if I can ask, what is your point exactly? I mean I can go on and on about continuity, and who came first, and what is the current canon timeline, and what happened in prior timelines, but what exactly is your point? |
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 9, 2014 22:50:29 GMT
Titans Go! just covered the preCrisis Adventures of the Titans, in a silly way. those things still sorta happened. Teen Titans/Titans go! are the same crap really. badly drawn but amusing retells of Old precrisis stories. And while young Justice (whose actual membership is nothing like the YJ comics or Titans) still has Dick going offworld more often then Batman Does. furthernote: the Titans TV series on CW will be borrowing from Young Justice For It's Lineup, (Kurt Conner and Me'gann.) No, Titans Go! Is a completely separate and unique timeline that continues the Teen Titans animated series continuity. It has no relation to the former or current main comic book continuities. Young Justice, particularly Season Two, has Batman off world more that Dick, and further shares nothing of Batman's history (not to mention the 5 year gap between the two seasons). So for all you know Batman was off world thousands of times, and Dick's only off-world jaunts are on-screen, so, a hand full. And both series draw from the main universe continuity. The Teen Titans Go! Series, like all series that came before it, draw from the main universe, as to character use, and team membership. Similarities between the membership of teams in parallel shows is due to drawing from the same source material. Also, if I can ask, what is your point exactly? I mean I can go on and on about continuity, and who came first, and what is the current canon timeline, and what happened in prior timelines, but what exactly is your point? |
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Post by yilbber on Jan 10, 2014 0:31:01 GMT
um hate to break it to you, but it was the 80s Titans that had Deathstroke all up on Robin's (Dick Grayson) Ass. because JERICHO, his son, was killed by the Titans (not their fault). (he was actually sent into the future to be part of the LSH, but he didn't know that).
Teen Titans was a retell of The Pre Crisis Adventures with Trigon and so on. It Was Not based on Mainline events, Despite Teen Titans Also getting a DC comic of their own to tie in with the series. but among the changes Teen titans did was make Terra to be Deathstroke's daughter (she was not originally).
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Post by yilbber on Jan 10, 2014 0:35:15 GMT
much like Amazing Spiderman issues are typically retells or retcons of past events in the prior storylines.
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Post by yilbber on Jan 10, 2014 0:39:56 GMT
the only times Batman is Offworld in Young Justice is in the Zeta beam plot arc, and that was for all of "5 minutes". and I'm not including the watch tower being in space as counting as being offworld. while technically it is, it's all stuff he made with his own technology with the help of a few justice leaguers.
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 10, 2014 2:46:31 GMT
Do yourself a favor shut the fuck up. You're showing how big of an idiot and troll you truly are.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jan 10, 2014 5:49:37 GMT
um hate to break it to you, but it was the 80s Titans that had Deathstroke all up on Robin's (Dick Grayson) Ass. because JERICHO, his son, was killed by the Titans (not their fault). (he was actually sent into the future to be part of the LSH, but he didn't know that).Teen Titans was a retell of The Pre Crisis Adventures with Trigon and so on. It Was Not based on Mainline events, Despite Teen Titans Also getting a DC comic of their own to tie in with the series. but among the changes Teen titans did was make Terra to be Deathstroke's daughter (she was not originally). Wrong. He was completing the contract His son (Ravager) began with H.I.V.E. Jericho joined the Titans in the 80s at the end of the Deathstroke storyline. seriously. do you just make this shit up? |
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Post by yilbber on Jan 10, 2014 17:40:56 GMT
I was just going by what the MEGS rpg entry had on them. There was no mention of RAVAGER. Mind you, I did not read the Hive sourcebook.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jan 10, 2014 17:58:22 GMT
Megs is outdated source material that wasnt even accurate when it was published.
A simple search of the DC Database would have turned up the information.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 14, 2014 10:52:03 GMT
Ok back to the OP
Creating members of the Bat Family. Or Heroes that 'Feel' like members of the bat family for "Your/Our" HU Game.
Now... we can pretty much Agree that Bruce/Batman himself is one of "The Biggies" Like Thor, Superman, The Hulk. You can't build him RAW With Palladium. You have to break the rules in two or three ways to even get close.
So...
The Bat Family, that are NOT BATMAN.
Nightwing
Robin (Times four or five)
Red Robin
Batgirl (Times four or five)
Batwoman (Times two maybe?)
(Yes I'm aware Nightwing was a Robin at one point and Red Robin was a robin. I'm just listing the type/example here)
Now.... I'm not asking how you would stat out... Nightwing... or One of the Robins. Nor one of the four or five Batgril's or Batwoman.
I'm looking to make a character that we could roll, an start at level 1, to eventually grow INTO a Nightwing, or a Batwoman, etc. As if it were a Robin, when he'd trained enough to be going out with Bats on his first real night out.
"Level one "Generic" Bat Family type hero" Perhaps a "Caped Crusader" Purposeful Class build.
For the sake of this, lets stipulate that the characters looking to be 'made' are at least of age to not suffer the penalties of "Young or Child characters". I.E we're not doing Damian as a 10 year old assassin(Trained enough to kick half the rest of the bat family's ass. That was so stupid. Just palm the fucker's face and kick him in the crotch.)
Nor any of the 'other' robins at 10..12...14....
Lets say... 16ish for minimum 'Adult' status.
I'm looking through the books and the core book is right out. Physical training isn't bad but it's lacking the skills that the bat family pretty universally have.
So I end up back with PU2, and looking at the Natural Genius. Now, all of the bat family is highly trained, to the point of almost absurdity. If there's a skill, turns out they trained in it, with Bruce or on their own. So, these singular people, could be argued to be "Natural Genius" In and of themselves. That's why they 'made the cut' to be in the Bat Family. That and the willingness to go out and play super hero with out laser beams out of their eyes or the like.
Part of the benefit of not playing "BATMAN" Himself is, that the rest of the Bat Family don't have -------------allllllllllllllllllllllllllll------------------------ those toys. (Or the ninjuitsu)
So looking at it as a 'first level character, purposefully built for bat family/Caped Crusader (Or similar style hero) we start at Natural Genius.
of the 4 Mental Disciplines we start with.
1: Analytical Mind: For the "Detective" Aspect that they all have
2: Mind over matter: Battle Trance. (To help augment the intense training at the hands of one of the bats, or their own other intense training. Benefit of not being "BATMAN" you don't have to have one of the "Exclusive" Martial arts. Like Ninjutisu, which would rule out this and most every other class)
3: Unnatural Perception: To pick up on the small seemingly impossible clues that the Bats and birds are so well known for. That one little thing that they add with their overwhelming intellect to piece crimes together.
4: (Open/Optional) For the 4th, I'd say leave it 'open' for the player to choose. As some might want to play more combat oriented (Find weakness) or some more detective oriented (speed reading/Enhanced memory, etc) or 'tougher (healing trance) Etc. Allow for a touch of customization here.
We get to education and skills. The bonus to all the 'brainy' skills fits a Bat/Caped Crusader, in this aspect. perhaps not just the 'natural understanding at +30%' but 'through intense training in the Bat family aspects' they've achieved that level in the brainy stuff. Which is fine. How you describe your character is going to be different from how someone else describes theirs. The result is the same there.
So you start with the skill programs
Computer
Language
Mechanical
Science
Technical
And you get 5 more skill programs.
Thief can be one. That gives Locksmith, Prowl, climbing and surveillance systems, which is useful. These are skills that everyone in the category would have.
Now that leaves you with 4 skill programs.
One of them simply has to be physical, as you can't get Acrobatics as a secondary skill. Acrobatics simply is a MUST HAVE for the type of hero. Swinging around on lines and building ledges. And this is one of the -few- times that I would say 'take acrobatics AND Gymnastics' as the Bat family/Caped Crusader type characters honestly do train in both. Those bonus, both to the physical and the secondary skills also fit the --concept--. It's not just someone loading up on kick ass physicals, to get more points on a sheet. The Bat family/Caped Crusaders really do need them. The sense of balance, the climb rope, the back flip. Additions to the climb skill, addition to the prowl skill, walk tight rope and high wire. These are all the sorts of things that the Bat family/Caped Crusaders do and seem to all have at 98%. We're starting a 1st lvl character but they're things that they would have and eventually build up. That leaves two physical skills. We got climbing from the thief program, and additions from acro and gymnastics, so we don't need that one. Already had prowl. So we're looking at things like Boxing for an additional attack (As we're not getting some super martial arts) Athletics or body building to help offset the extremely limited number of physical skills we can get. Running or wrestling for the same reasons. (Small note. I don't charge people for the basic swimming skill. Unless you have a reason NOT to know how to swim, it's one of the ones I give them as a default. Most everyone can doggy paddle if they HAVE to.) So pick two more physicals for flavor. Though to be honest I'd spend the two last physical skills for hand to hand expert. or hand to hand Basic and tack on boxing. yeah it's a bit of a stack for a purpose but we're trying to get the most physical we can out of just the 4 skills we have. I don't think "Basic' Covers the bats. So I'd go Physical skill program. HTH Expert (2 skill selections) Gymnastics and acrobatics.
That tops out our physical skills. And gives us the thief program. That leaves three skill programs.
If the game master allows, this might be a great place for Gizmoteer programs from N&SS. The Electronic Gizmoteer program,and weapon construction ones would be fitting for making one's own weapons/gismos. Be it batarangs, The staffs or fighting sticks. The swing line launchers, etc. The hacking one works too, Locksmith one works. Microchip one is dated for 1980, so... eh, but the list of things you could build would show up in a bat belt from time to time, To a lessor extent, Vehicle Construction. Though I'm not sure they really have their own special vehicles. I mean robin had a bike but it was no batmobile, or bat jet. You could skate by with a speed bike and some modifications through the other skills.
The three remaining skill programs would be to taste to see which aspects of the family and unique parts of the character would be focused on.
you get 12 secondary skills. These can help fill in the gaps. The problem here lays in that the Bat families/caped crusaders end up doing alot of Roughish stuff. lol. You're only allowed 2 more rogue skills. We got locksmith under thief above (and technically is under mechanical so it doesn't' count against us.) Prowl is found in physical, so it didn't count against us. So, we look at it. Computer hacking, Concealment, Find contraband and illegal weapons, palming, Pick pockets, safe crackintg, streetwise are all skills that are shown by many bat families. All but computer hacking, safe cracking and find contraband can be taken as secondary and should likely be part of the '12' secondary skills you can pick. Concealment is useful. As is palming but to be honest, GM's so very seldom are going to make you roll a palming roll and it seems a shame to waste. Streetwise is pretty mandatory though. You need it in some fashion, be in one of your programs if not, then for sure in your secondaries.
You'll need pilot skills. Not every member of the Bat families could pilot fighter jets or such though. Some seem to get away with car (Another that I tend to give everyone that grew up in the US for 'free') or motorcycle. You will need a few weapon preferences. In case you're wondering there IS a WP Boomerang skill. It's in Mutants Down under.
So you fill in kinda for flavor with the last skill programs and secondary. We're pretty close.
Now we come to the kicker, and it some what circles back around to the skills above. If you're allowed to take Gizmoteer programs, you can build alot of the gizmos that the Bat family uses. batman builds alot of his own, but you kinda get the impression the rest of the family get theirs from him. (Not really an option for this 'generic build') Or are independently wealthy on their own, just like Bruce (Batwoman for example is another super wealthy crime fighter I believe). So... if your gm allows the gizmoteer programs, you can build your own at cost. If not..... you're a little bit stuck. If you assume the roll on funds for the biggest, you can end up with 20,000 to 120,000 to start. This could allow you to buy your weapons and some (non special) armor that you can visually customize with some of the skills you get automatically. Or even with other buildy skills if you were 'not' allowed the gizmoteer programs. "Super suits' cost ALOT OF MONEY in HU, so you'll probably end up with one of the 'armors' from the back of the book with cosmetic changes till you make some buddies or find someone to sponsor you. Again here, by not being BATMAN you don't need millions for a bat jet, or a bat chopper or a bat sub, or even 100s of1000s for the Batmobile. So you don't have to bend the char to have basically the 'hardware' category on top of everything else. While many of them use some gadgets, the extent usually tops out at the line launchers and some electronics. If you use actual real world prices, (Not "OMG Night vision. $50,000!!!!! type crap from the 80s price charts) Then much of it isn't hard to mimic. The Line launcher will be a 'thing' you're going to either have to straight up buy or invent yourself. The weapons, while neat, really aren't all that deep for the most part. bat-a-rangs are bladed boomerangs for the most part. You can buy bugs and surveillance equipment in many malls now, or on up for more sophisitacted items, the internet can get you most ANYTHING. The bike or car you can buy and modify with your natural genius skills. Granted it's not going to be a batmobile, but the others don't really tool around in them (I don't think.) nightwing uses his fighting sticks and many robins used staffs but while 'high tech' they didn't like shoot bazooka shells or anything.
Important note here. If your GM Does NOT allow for gizmoteer programs from N&SS, HU does have a little thing that most people miss. ANYONE with the 'proper' skills can use the Hardware Class build categories. They just suffer the penalties off the tables.
If you can't take gizmoteer programs you can take the proper buildy programs with your 3 'other' skill programs, depending on what you're aiming for. When you add in the +30% from the NG's bonus, the penalties aren't THAT horrendous. Sure you're going to mess up now and then but you'll get there eventually. Not as good as the Hardware catagories, nor will you have their budget, but you can get the small stuff built yourself this way. No Tumblers, Bat Submarines or bat wings, but you could build a line launcher this way and surely make your own bat-a-rangs and stuff.
So how's this sort of work up look to everyone? Some of your stuff is pretty straight up, "You're going to have to take XY and Z with minimal "Q" To customize" For the initial level 1 build... but.... when you look at it, it's not too terribly far off for the 'rest' of the Bat Family/Caped crusader. Batman being the Special Snowflake that couldn't be recreated.
I think this works for the others though, and would allow for some personalization around the edges for a character in an HU game.
As they grow in levels they get more of the Mental Disciplines that will help 'round out' the characters as full fledged members of the class. you get 4 at lvl 1 and another at lvl 2 and 4 and 6, where you're coincided an 'experienced' super hero. So by level 6 you'll have 7 of those things, and they add up. Along with all the mental skills and the admittedly purpose built choices in physical an stuff... you can approximate the
TYPE
Of character.
How's this look for a 'Caped Crusader" to you guys?
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 14, 2014 15:44:30 GMT
I like it for a relatively bat style character  |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jan 14, 2014 18:02:57 GMT
I always looked at it as if each member of the Bat-family were a different power class. With Bruce as the central Natural Genius class and training each of them in a handful of his Mental Disciplines.
But your way would work as well Sci-Fi.
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 14, 2014 18:41:18 GMT
It occurs to me that since we are talking about the Bat Family perhaps we should list the Bat Family? (I am gonna use their 'Hero' Names to make things easier, and I am including Batmen of All Nations and Batman Inc, but not the Outsiders, and I am using only comic continuity, but I am including both pre and post New 52 continuity)
Batman
Alfred (Yes, he counts)
Nightwing (Robin I, Batman III)
Red Hood (Robin II, Red Robin, Wingman II)
Red Robin II (Robin III & V)
Spoiler (Robin IV, Batgirl IV)
Robin VI (Redbird)
James Gordon
Batgirl I (Oracle)
Huntress (Batgirl II)
Black Bat (Batgirl III)
Batwoman I
Batwoman II
Flamebird (Hawkfire, the Bat-Girl)
Catwoman I
Catwoman II
Azrael I (Batman II)
Azrael II
Batwing I
Batwing II
The Question II
Man-Of-Bats
Raven Red (Little Raven)
Mr. Unknown (Batman of Tokyo, Batman Japan)
Nightrunner
El Gaucho
The Hood
Dark Ranger II (Scout)
Orpheus
Proxy
Knight I (Squire I)
Knight II (Squire II)
Knight III (Squire III)
Batman of Moscow
Scarlet
Lynx III
Owlman
Talon
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jan 14, 2014 21:04:51 GMT
Isn't creeper considered a part of the family too?
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 14, 2014 21:18:30 GMT
Isn't creeper considered a part of the family too? The Creeper's status overall is unclear, but while Gotham based he didnt have any direct relation to Batman through his origin or establishment. He was a member of the Outsiders, but I didnt include their membership. I would say he (like the rest of the Outsiders) is a 'friend of the family', but not a member there-of. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jan 14, 2014 22:15:56 GMT
It occurs to me that since we are talking about the Bat Family perhaps we should list the Bat Family? (I am gonna use their 'Hero' Names to make things easier, and I am including Batmen of All Nations and Batman Inc, but not the Outsiders, and I am using only comic continuity, but I am including both pre and post New 52 continuity) Batman Alfred (Yes, he counts) Nightwing (Robin I, Batman III) Red Hood (Robin II, Red Robin, Wingman II) Red Robin II (Robin III & V) Spoiler (Robin IV, Batgirl IV) Robin VI (Redbird) James Gordon Batgirl I (Oracle) Huntress (Batgirl II) Black Bat (Batgirl III) Batwoman I Batwoman II Flamebird (Hawkfire, the Bat-Girl) Catwoman I Catwoman II Azrael I (Batman II) Azrael II Batwing I Batwing II The Question II Man-Of-Bats Raven Red (Little Raven) Mr. Unknown (Batman of Tokyo, Batman Japan) Nightrunner El Gaucho The Hood Dark Ranger II (Scout) Orpheus Proxy Knight I (Squire I) Knight II (Squire II) Knight III (Squire III) Batman of Moscow Scarlet Lynx III Owlman Talon I wasn't being quite this expansive in my thoughts on the 'Bat family.' I was thinking. (and going to cut and paste from your list, instead of typing it in my own words Batman Nightwing (Robin I, Batman III) Red Hood (Robin II, Red Robin, Wingman II) Red Robin (Robin III & V) Spoiler (Robin IV, Batgirl IV) Robin VI (Redbird) Batgirl I (Oracle) Huntress (Batgirl II) Black Bat (Batgirl III) Batwoman I Batwoman II While I do conciser Alfred a member of the 'Bat family' for sure, He's trained as a secret agent of some flavor from N&SS or even the option in HU. He's not trained asa 'Caped Crusader'. While he's -surely- a "Full memver' of the Bat family. he's not of the "Caped Crusader" hero class. The last list "Catwoman I Catwoman II" While she hangs out with bats and is an ally as much as a villain (Perhaps more ally these days) I don't think she's a member of the family. She's of a different class and what not. I love her, but she's different. "Azrael I (Batman II) Azrael II" I know who he is. I don't concider him remotely a member of the bat family though. More robotic suit wasn't he? "Batwing I Batwing II" I had to look these up. I think they'd fall under the Caped Crusader type, but I don't know anything about them that 20 seconds on the wiki didn't tell me. I'm not sure I'd concider them part of the Fam! But of the class, it appears to my very limited knowledge, yes. "The Question II" Had to look this one up. Again, very limited knowledge doesn't seem to put him in the family or the class ""Man-Of-Bats" Ehhh... Um... The internet is not nice to this guy. Best I can tell he's a native american that really liked the idea of batman, but did his own thing? "Raven Red (Little Raven)" Seems to be the previous guys' side kick "Mr. Unknown (Batman of Tokyo, Batman Japan)" Er... the 'Where are my hands" guy? lol. Again, had to look this up. Apperently he's a franchise holder in japan. Not much information on him i could find, but maybe the Caped Crusader class? Surely not in the family. "Nightrunner" This poor guy sufferes a kludge of stuff but does appear to be of the Class at least, though 'le batman of france' isn't one I'd consider in the family itself. "El Gaucho" Meh... this guy seems almost like a bad zorro rip off. "The Hood" Not sure about this one at all "Dark Ranger II (Scout)" Again, I don't know anything really about all these Batman Incorp. types but this guy doesn't seem to cut the snuff on a glance. "Orpheus" Seems a bit like an affirmative action batman. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but from what I read he purposefully gets going so Gotham will have a black batman. Eh.. fail. "Proxy" Seems to be.. well.. a Proxy for Oracle. Kinda helpful in a support role, but not really a member of the family and not of the class for sure. "Knight I (Squire I) Knight II (Squire II) Knight III (Squire III)" These guys seem like support wannabees. Not that that makes them bad, but not a Caped crusader or member of the family. Just 'guys that will pitch in if TSHTF "Batman of Moscow" A brawler with a suit, who died in acid. Nope. "Scarlet" No. Not at all. At best she's a side kick to a bat villian/anti hero "Lynx III" Um... gang leader that got her ass handed to her by Batgirl and was so awesome one of her own men accidently cut off her head? She does seem to bounce back from the dead and try and play Catgirl to Redrobin (Like Catwoman to Batman) But with my limited knowledge I don't think she fits class or family "Owlman" Ehh.. Once i hit 'Antimatter universe" i went ahead and ruled him out. "Talon" Seems to be an owl based villian. |
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Post by 13eowulf on Jan 14, 2014 22:42:30 GMT
The original Catwoman in recent years has been more hero than villain, and lover, being invited to the cave, having secret IDs revealed to her, etc. But I do understand where you are coming from, it is the same reason I didn’t include her side-kick Catgirl, or the relatively unrelated Catman character. After Knightfall Azrael had his own book "Azrael: Agent of the Bat", he was explicitly a member. About here is where I was getting into the Batmen of All Nations and Batman Inc. But Batwing was being pushed hard by DC, often being included with the rest of the Bat Family in promotional material. As you referred to the character as a ‘Him’ I take it you found the Question I, The Question II is Rene Montoya, already a Bat-Ally from GCPD, who also worked ‘closely’ with Batwoman. *Snip* (don’t really agree or disagree here) Given Jason Todd in his current incarnation is being considered a member I felt that his own sidekick deserved a mention Meant to remove this one, my bad. Heh, antimatter universe.... I guess this one could have used greater explanation, I was referring to Ronnie Raymond Jr., Batman specifically had the Owlman stuff made to be given to Ronnie, part of the Battle for the Cowl and Death of Bruce Wayne story. Court of Owls story, and affiliated with Batman Inc. Dick Grayson was being groomed as a Talon (without his knowledge) before the tragedy that took his parents and left him with Bruce. So there is history there as well. |
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