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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 2, 2013 2:07:47 GMT
So how do you guys handle Bat-family style heroes? Be it Batman himself. Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, etc. They don't fit comfortably under the current HU categories.
Most of them do not have 'super' powers, but that being said they're more than just hardware catagories. Depending on where in the lore, you look at it, Batman has full out learned ninjitsu, (and other martial arts) been a billionair playboy, olympic class acrobat, world class detective, inventor, fabricator, etc.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 2, 2013 2:18:03 GMT
Honestly? I break the rules and just give him each class that would cover what you just mentioned. But then again I don't care if I break the rules as long as I maintain a consistency in doing so.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 2, 2013 2:50:36 GMT
So how do you guys handle Bat-family style heroes? Be it Batman himself. Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, etc. They don't fit comfortably under the current HU categories. Most of them do not have 'super' powers, but that being said they're more than just hardware catagories. Depending on where in the lore, you look at it, Batman has full out learned ninjitsu, (and other martial arts) been a billionair playboy, olympic class acrobat, world class detective, inventor, fabricator, etc. Considering my house rules for generation in HU alter the game drastically... Like Jaymz I "break" the game to make them fit. EX: By altering the Natural Genius/Mastermind class to allow them access to all skills Bats would fall under that class. (as a mega with the mega power of Filthy Stinking Rich) The rest *shrug* are supposed to be but pale copies of the original... so they can be done using one class and judicious skill selection most times. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 2, 2013 2:56:05 GMT
I wouldn't say Dick is a pale comparison. In fact Bruce himself has said Dick is the only one who is truly capable of replacing him.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 2, 2013 3:21:19 GMT
Hasn't he done just that on more than one occasion?
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 2, 2013 3:22:47 GMT
Actually at present, unless it has changed very recently, Dick IS Batman in Gotham now.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 2, 2013 3:46:01 GMT
I wouldn't say Dick is a pale comparison. In fact Bruce himself has said Dick is the only one who is truly capable of replacing him. that just means Dick is the best copy not an identical copy. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 2, 2013 3:47:03 GMT
I didn't say identical I said he wasn't a pale comparison.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 2, 2013 4:04:22 GMT
Sometimes the student can surpass the master. Bruce was horribly 'broken' before he ever started. (Not that Dick had an awesome childhood. Jus' saying)
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 2, 2013 4:10:01 GMT
I didn't say identical I said he wasn't a pale comparison. Poor turn of a phrase... I meant it as Bruce is superior to the others... The Ideal that they strive for but will not completely ever reach. (even the Dick version bats is shown to doubt his ability to take Bruce's place). |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 2, 2013 4:16:53 GMT
Humility can be a strength in a person trying to be the best they can be. Never thinking they have achieved it, gives them the push to always strive to do better.  |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 2, 2013 4:42:20 GMT
Humility can be a strength in a person trying to be the best they can be. Never thinking they have achieved it, gives them the push to always strive to do better. Which works well in storytelling but not in a game that quantifies every power, skill, stat etc... |
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Post by 13eowulf on Dec 2, 2013 4:50:35 GMT
Dick is an equal, if not better, on the physical side, but has to work on the mental side.
Tim on the other hand, is a natural on the mental side, with Bruce admitting in private that Tim may even be smarter than himself. Even Ra's al Ghul honoured Tim, and Tim alone, by referring to him as 'Detective' after Tim bested him.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 2, 2013 4:55:47 GMT
Back to the OP though, basically it's just the general consensus to "Break it and make it work. Just be consistent"? Which, is what I pretty much do. I was just curious if others had other thoughts. lol
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 2, 2013 6:23:51 GMT
Back to the OP though, basically it's just the general consensus to "Break it and make it work. Just be consistent"? Which, is what I pretty much do. I was just curious if others had other thoughts. lol Yeah pretty much. But When I break it I try to still hew as close to RAW as I can. I typically look for precedents set in the books before I fold, spindle and mutilate the rules. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 6, 2013 14:06:50 GMT
I've been thinking about this as it pertains to batman.
While I'm breaking the rules to do so, I think best way to emulate Batman (as in the actual character not making a batman like character) is to make him a 15th level dedicated martial artist - ninjutsu from N&SS and also a 15th level analytical genius with a phd level education focussing on criminal sciences, investigation, espionage and physical skills. I would also out all of his attributes in the low to mid 20 range with exception being PB which I would put in the higher teens.
Thoughts?
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NMI
New Member
Posts: 19 
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Post by NMI on Dec 6, 2013 17:25:32 GMT
I think you could get away with simply doing HtH: Assassin as well. Then with some of his skills, you can say they are the equal to some martial art powers - Prowl, Escape Artist and a few others. There is precedence for this too.. a NPC in Villains Unlimited I believe.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 6, 2013 19:27:38 GMT
Difference of opinion then because to me prowl and escape artist just aren't up to snuff. Agsin it gives you a batman like character but certainly not the batman.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 6, 2013 22:06:51 GMT
The problem with giving him a N&S MAF is the MAPs...
He really hasn't demonstrated any mystical martial art powers.
I would just adjust the Genius from PU2 to allow for the selection of physical programs and go from there.
Definitely a lvl 15 character tho.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 6, 2013 22:22:59 GMT
It doesn't address the gear though. All the high tech everything, from the suit to the grapples to the weapons to the jet to the car to the sub, to the bike. etc. In some incarnations he had other people helping him but for most of it he designed/built all that stuff on his own.
Batman and the bat-family really are a kludge of about 3 or 4 classes.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 6, 2013 22:24:27 GMT
It doesn't address the gear though. All the high tech everything, from the suit to the grapples to the weapons to the jet to the car to the sub, to the bike. etc. In some incarnations he had other people helping him but for most of it he designed/built all that stuff on his own. Batman and the bat-family really are a kludge of about 3 or 4 classes. being filthy rich explains the gear. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 6, 2013 22:46:40 GMT
Depends Damian
He definitely seems to demonstrate abilities from the arts on invisibility etc.
As for gear analytical genius along with the money would explain a lot and in most cases the big things are done with some help.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 7, 2013 0:22:37 GMT
Most of his stealth abilities can be covered by a high prowl skill.
Gear wise with the abilities of the Genius/Mastermind class and tremendous wealth that's pretty well covered.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 7, 2013 2:18:22 GMT
I respectfully disagree Damian
Art of hiding and art of vanishing cannot be covered by prowl. Nor can art of falling. Bats certainly would have all three of these.
Analytical genius or natural genius is likely interchangeable to some degree as both would slow him to get /create the gear with themoney he has.
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Post by writersblock on Dec 7, 2013 3:49:47 GMT
My recommendation is something along dual class Super Sleuth and Physical Training. Still does not get you there, without breaking the rules, but close.
You want to really pull your hair out, do what I did ages ago. For my New Mutants campaign, I made up the X Men and friends. Pain. Full.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 7, 2013 17:40:35 GMT
My recommendation is something along dual class Super Sleuth and Physical Training. Still does not get you there, without breaking the rules, but close. You want to really pull your hair out, do what I did ages ago. For my New Mutants campaign, I made up the X Men and friends. Pain. Full. I do not believe a "dual class" is necessary for Bats or any of the Bat-family. The instinctive need to dual class most Iconics is something I have always wondered about. Not every single one is a dual class. Would you dual class Spidey? (He has some psychic powers and does build his own gear). I have only found a couple of characters that could not be classified as a single class (especially now that PU2 exists). |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 7, 2013 17:44:09 GMT
I respectfully disagree Damian Art of hiding and art of vanishing cannot be covered by prowl. Nor can art of falling. Bats certainly would have all three of these. Analytical genius or natural genius is likely interchangeable to some degree as both would slow him to get /create the gear with themoney he has. Art of Hiding and Vanishing are both specialized prowls. Art falling? given the nature of the medium we are drawing from every single comic character has this MAP. |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 7, 2013 17:52:26 GMT
On a side note Jaymz...
It is possible to give a Martial Art from N&S without making him a dedicated MA or dual classing.
HUr introduced rules for allowing the MAFs to be selected by specific classes.
I have taken those rules and expanded upon them (as has most everyone who picks up the books) to allow for certain PU2 classes to also select them.
The trick with Bats is giving him a MAF that only grants non-mystical MAPs.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 7, 2013 19:19:22 GMT
I don't agree that either hiding or vanishing are forms of prowl. Not by the way they are described. And falling no not every character would have it only those that are similar to bats like the daredevils night wings etc.
Either way I don't think either of us will convince the other and I'm ok with that.
On tbe side of natural genius though.......after going over it again the extras definitely workforce bats except I am not sure the skill selections would be quite enough. If he had no ninjutsu he could trade off any extra powers above tbe ones I mentioned to gain additional skill progs though.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 7, 2013 20:54:40 GMT
Oddly enough... The genius/mastermind (I prefer the term Mastermind for the class) is one of the classes I have adapted to allow the selection N&S MAFs...
so it is in theory possible to create Bats with out resorting to "Multi/dual classing."
Just as long as you break the game in other ways that is...
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