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Post by yilbber on Dec 23, 2013 18:24:38 GMT
they would be ok to have in grades, but not exactly a level system. There's hardly anything that could be said to be useful in combat in many commercial flying experiences. and in regards to vehicle training If it's not reproduceable via education it's not really trainable. (for example, if someone has some sort of flight adaptation, no matter what others try to teach him, his Talents will win out in the end.)
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 23, 2013 18:47:32 GMT
That is why I am not suggesting for "civilian" uses but for "combat" On a larger multicrewed vehicle it is problematic, but on one man vehicles it would seem to make sense and as I've said, since phaseworld introduced Space Fighter COmbat Elite and Basic, it would stand to reason that it can be (and in my opinion should be) applied to combat aircraft and vehicles as well eve if only as it is now and not as a separate thing.
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 23, 2013 19:18:21 GMT
insulting posters does your argument more harm than good. your reputation on a board is based upon: The way you treat others. And The level of accuracy in your posts. Yours cannot withstand too many more of these self inflicted wounds. is it my fault you begin with a faulty premise (that Rifts has vehicle combat behave the same as hand to hand, when i proved otherwise) As for the discussions on the control interfaces, these appeared in early rifters, early FAQs, and in various tucked away sections on various mecha. Rifts Generally just gives less agile mecha lower bonuses, and bigger , faster, ones , more bonuses. As for example " in Cb 1: they mention other powers being able to make transformable mecha, and they go reasons as to why not.... (of course, jump to phase world, we have our first Transformable starship) and now you demonstrate your ability to assimilate data and comprehend the initial question. The only questions asked were "should vehicles/bots/pa have a 15 level combat progression that is independent from hth" And a request for book/page citations. Both of which you had to be asked repeatedly before you would answer. evasions and insults were your responses. So I ask you... Who is the troll? |
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Post by yilbber on Dec 23, 2013 23:10:18 GMT
Weapons mastery is often done with a crap load of Non lethal practice.
Can't really say the same with ship to ship combat.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 23, 2013 23:20:04 GMT
Thus simulator combat which we know they do now as well.
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Post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan on Dec 27, 2013 9:47:23 GMT
Splitting the Robot combat training (and other vehicles too for that matter) would better make the distinction between these things and allow for things like the telemental helmet (HU) to be more effective in what it is supposed to do. Just my thoughts. Comments? I have to agree. Only mecha that use some sort of mental interface (e.g. - Bioroid) and power amplified body armor should get the advantage of combining the HTH with the Mecha Combat. It would speed up combat greatly if you made rounds about 6 seconds long instead of 15. |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 27, 2013 18:33:29 GMT
Splitting the Robot combat training (and other vehicles too for that matter) would better make the distinction between these things and allow for things like the telemental helmet (HU) to be more effective in what it is supposed to do. Just my thoughts. Comments? I have to agree. Only mecha that use some sort of mental interface (e.g. - Bioroid) and power amplified body armor should get the advantage of combining the HTH with the Mecha Combat. It would speed up combat greatly if you made rounds about 6 seconds long instead of 15. Not really... The only "real" way to speed up the combat is to eliminate the active defense and the round robin combat. |
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Post by yilbber on Dec 27, 2013 21:33:29 GMT
Yep. I did that split combat into 3 phases, Action, attack, counterattack, ..
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 27, 2013 22:05:20 GMT
Yep. I did that split combat into 3 phases, Action, attack, counterattack, .. how does that simplify combat? If anything it sounds as if it complicates more. However the answer to that is straying from the topic... It should be its own topic. |
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 28, 2013 2:00:42 GMT
I lost track of the thread...
Ok um... With power armor I add to standing HtH data it speeds thing up for a faster combat I have found the alternative leads to longer combat...
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 28, 2013 2:16:35 GMT
That's pretty much the way it's supposed to be Bunny  Personally I just don't think it's accurate and based on several other games I play/played it isn't the right way to go. Just my personal stance on it really. |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 28, 2013 5:03:12 GMT
That's pretty much the way it's supposed to be Bunny Personally I just don't think it's accurate and based on several other games I play/played it isn't the right way to go. Just my personal stance on it really. Like I said... I agree with you where bots and vehicles are concerned. But the basic premise behind Power Armor/Exo-suits is to enhance the wearers capabilities (including reaction times) so I see no issue with the current rules for PA. (excluding the need for an additional degree of "expertise" of course). |
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Post by Rabid Southern Cross Fan on Dec 28, 2013 8:05:14 GMT
But the basic premise behind Power Armor/Exo-suits is to enhance the wearers capabilities (including reaction times) so I see no issue with the current rules for PA. (excluding the need for an additional degree of "expertise" of course). Well, it begs the question of if there even SHOULD be extra hand-to-hand attacks for Power Amplified Body Armor. The armor itself could still enhance the wearer's natural abilities, but that may very well not translate into more attacks per melee. YMMV, but realistically, the advantage of Powered Armor is that you get to use your full physical skills when operating the mecha as opposed to a robot where the computer is translating the controller movements into combat..... |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 28, 2013 11:12:06 GMT
But the basic premise behind Power Armor/Exo-suits is to enhance the wearers capabilities (including reaction times) so I see no issue with the current rules for PA. (excluding the need for an additional degree of "expertise" of course). Well, it begs the question of if there even SHOULD be extra hand-to-hand attacks for Power Amplified Body Armor. The armor itself could still enhance the wearer's natural abilities, but that may very well not translate into more attacks per melee. YMMV, but realistically, the advantage of Powered Armor is that you get to use your full physical skills when operating the mecha as opposed to a robot where the computer is translating the controller movements into combat..... True enough. But what is the alternative? I added in an extra level of expertise/complexity to mine (See my previous post discussing RPA Combat Basic, Advanced, and Elite). The only other simple option I see (always looking for the simplest to implement... No need to re-invent the wheel after all) is to just remove the extra actions flat out but keep the other bonuses in place (but that feels like it kinda cheapens the skill somewhat). |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 28, 2013 14:36:46 GMT
Well, it begs the question of if there even SHOULD be extra hand-to-hand attacks for Power Amplified Body Armor. The armor itself could still enhance the wearer's natural abilities, but that may very well not translate into more attacks per melee. YMMV, but realistically, the advantage of Powered Armor is that you get to use your full physical skills when operating the mecha as opposed to a robot where the computer is translating the controller movements into combat..... True enough. But what is the alternative? I added in an extra level of expertise/complexity to mine (See my previous post discussing RPA Combat Basic, Advanced, and Elite). The only other simple option I see (always looking for the simplest to implement... No need to re-invent the wheel after all) is to just remove the extra actions flat out but keep the other bonuses in place (but that feels like it kinda cheapens the skill somewhat). well I sort of did that.....in most PA if you have basic (as I said earlier) you get your HTH attacks but only half your HTH bonuses (and WP bonuses). With advanced you keep your full bonuses. In both cases IF the unit itself has things like targeting bonuses etc (most will only have the targeting computer bonus and that's it) then you can still add those in. What I remove is the bonuses to dodge etc the skill gives, not the units themselves. (For power armour that is) |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 28, 2013 20:07:30 GMT
True enough. But what is the alternative? I added in an extra level of expertise/complexity to mine (See my previous post discussing RPA Combat Basic, Advanced, and Elite). The only other simple option I see (always looking for the simplest to implement... No need to re-invent the wheel after all) is to just remove the extra actions flat out but keep the other bonuses in place (but that feels like it kinda cheapens the skill somewhat). well I sort of did that.....in most PA if you have basic (as I said earlier) you get your HTH attacks but only half your HTH bonuses (and WP bonuses). With advanced you keep your full bonuses. In both cases IF the unit itself has things like targeting bonuses etc (most will only have the targeting computer bonus and that's it) then you can still add those in. What I remove is the bonuses to dodge etc the skill gives, not the units themselves. (For power armour that is) but in rifts that typically means no PA comes with Dodge/parry bonuses... And if you are eliminating dodge/parry why not strike as well for the same reasons? I view the skills as allowing the pilot to maximize the full capabilities of the suit. Many is the novel that explains that intensive training/practice is required before the suit and pilot reach full potential. Many of those same stories also explain that accidents (broken bones, sprains, etc...) are common place during training indicating in my mind that the dodge/parry/strike bonuses (and possibly the bonus apm) are part of the suits enhancements. But they require you have intense training to utilize them. (just the Pilot skill vs Basic vs Advanced vs Elite combat training in my games.) |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 29, 2013 5:42:43 GMT
Because hth strike bonuses do not apply to ranged weapons where a targeting computer does?
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Post by damianmagecraft on Dec 29, 2013 6:08:09 GMT
Because hth strike bonuses do not apply to ranged weapons where a targeting computer does? what about Melee in PA? do Strike bonuses count then? |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 29, 2013 13:29:06 GMT
OK let me restate again.
Instead of PA basic/Elite adding to the your HTH as it does now I do this:
PA Basic - Allows you all of your HTH attacks and half of your bonuses from HTH training and Weapon related skills
PA Elite - Allows you all of your HTH attacks and all of your bonuses from HTH training and Weapon related skills.
Any bonuses from the unit itself (as in targeting computers and if the specific unit has bonuses above and beyond what the old basic/elite had) add to your HTH. This shows the advanced level of those particular units The majority of units will only have the targeting computer bonus to aid in weapon use.
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