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Post by Jaymz on Dec 6, 2014 4:07:06 GMT
Another week so another update my little palladiumites... Obligatory...don't like it don't read unless you are willing to discuss it as an adult and not an immature ass. And away we go www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php…"The Palladium crew had been working like fiends over many a weekend for a long time now, so I gave them a well deserved 4-day weekend off. Those four days off went by way too fast, but it did enable us to catch our breath. Julius, Alex and I worked on Sunday to insure the many Christmas Surprise Packages shipped on Monday." So you gave them four days off but not Alex or Julius they only got three. Gotcha. "UPDATE: Christmas Surprise Packages are pouring in as time is running out to get gifts for the holidays." Same as last year and the year before. It is a good deal for you Americans of the group. "UPDATE: The Rifter® #68 – Ships next Friday" So yep, 6 weeks late.... "UPDATE: Palladium Fantasy RPG®: Bizantium and the Northern Islands™ – in production – January release" Funny how this was originally September as if recall correctly....then October.....then November....the December....now January....not like anyone here predicted this would happen. My bet is March. "90+ Palladium PDF titles available on DriveThruRPG.com" So frickin what. Its a bunch of out of prints and Rifters. Whoopdeefrickindoo. "UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ – shipping like crazy" "Kickstarter rewards are already in the hands of 4,000+ US and Canadian backers (and in stores across the USA and Canada)." Yep. I got mine. I am glad I did. Still....black Friday sales or no, it was STILL a dick move to go back on your own word to ship to ALL backers before retail. "Artist Nick Bradshaw is a first-time Dad" Congrats Mr. Bradshaw "Happy Birthday, Jeff" Happy happy to Mr Burke "Sad News and Warm Thoughts" Um, I hate to say this because I get the reason he may have typed this section but DUDE put that in your Murmur not the frickin company weekly update.... And that's all folks. See you next week. |
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Post by kryptt on Dec 7, 2014 18:59:37 GMT
I think him misleading the backers with disinformation and going back on his word is seen as the small stuff. That's his problem. He doesn't see that there are real problems and it's bringing down the company. When did the company update also become his diary?
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 7, 2014 20:04:39 GMT
The better question is when wasn't it?
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 7, 2014 21:06:51 GMT
WHY'S THE PIZZA GONE!??
Seriously though it does seem to indicate a rather glaring disconnect from reality when one can so casually mark off over a thousand of your customers whom each bought $100s in product.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2014 0:08:36 GMT
I think him misleading the backers with disinformation and going back on his word is seen as the small stuff. That's his problem. He doesn't see that there are real problems and it's bringing down the company. Harmony Gold and Palladium Books... "birds of a feather", as they say. Neither has a single fuck to give about their customers, because the contempt they have for you is such that they see you only as entranced magpies with wallets. Harmony Gold was even tactless enough that they said it, point-blank, when they were talking about the response they expected to Robotech Academy's Kickstarter campaign. They think your reply to a new product announcement will be "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!", no matter what it is or how poorly it's made. In this case, Palladium already has your money so they have even less reason to give a damn what you think than usual... When did the company update also become his diary? Hey, this is an improvement. Before winter hit, it was his effing birdwatching journal. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2014 20:00:42 GMT
LoL yeah I was going to mention the birds.
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Post by raiden on Dec 8, 2014 20:54:39 GMT
If what I read over in the PB Facebook page is correct, apparently there is already a store in Germany selling the RRT base set at retail. So yeah... The screwing over of the rest of the world backers just keeps going.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 8, 2014 22:05:39 GMT
If what I read over in the PB Facebook page is correct, apparently there is already a store in Germany selling the RRT base set at retail. So yeah... The screwing over of the rest of the world backers just keeps going. And thus, the million dollar question is... Will the backers actually LEARN from this?My suspicion is "No". |
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Post by raiden on Dec 8, 2014 23:30:33 GMT
North American backers, no.
Overseas backers, I'm thinking they've learned their lesson.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 9, 2014 6:12:29 GMT
Right because some how they're so much smarter than those in North America?
Naa. I don't think so.
Sadly I don't think there will be many lessons learned(here or over seas). For all the people slinging fire, the people that spent hundreds on this thing, are real fans. Not just casual impulse buyers.
If something else of that nature popped up, they're the sort that would pay anyway. "Well I got burned last time but I REALLY want the product. So I'll pay, and just know I'm likely to get burned."
I'm not going to lie. I went in for the NG insiders, with __FULL__FULL__FULL__ knowledge that they weren't going to shake out like the write ups said. But I wanted the product, so I went in, even knowing it was going to suck. It sucked, they took forever to be finished. Far far longer than was promised and or should have. In the end I got the product I payed for though. And I won't lie, if another book came up like NG, that I REALLY wanted, I'd jump in again. Again with the fore-knowledge that it's going to suck. Because I want the product. More than the suckage would drive me away.
If it's a book I'm NOT Very excited about. (Say.. some sort of Palladium fantasy magic book or something) I'm much more likely to go "You know. I'm not too excited about that, and I know it's going to suck so I'm not going to touch it."
Just like I did with the RTT. I don't do Minis. Sure the KS stuff might be collectable one day but that was big money for something we all knew from the start was going to be.... problematic at the very best. So I stayed out of it. And thus and able to sort of watch this all from the side and not be too terribly upset.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 9, 2014 16:48:32 GMT
Right because some how they're so much smarter than those in North America? Naa. I don't think so. I dunno, man... the ones in SoCal, the real Robotech faithful, have memories and pattern recognition skills like goldfish with anterograde amnesia. That level of stupid is the only way to believe Robotech has a future. Mind you, after Robotech Academy spun in so damn hard the impact formed new fault lines, all but the most frothingly idiotic Robotech faithful are asking the awkward questions. Sadly I don't think there will be many lessons learned(here or over seas). For all the people slinging fire, the people that spent hundreds on this thing, are real fans. Not just casual impulse buyers. That's why I maintain the game has no future... all the people for whom this product is actually an appealing prospect already have it or will be getting it as their reward for backing it. It has almost no appeal otherwise. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 10, 2014 0:21:40 GMT
Why is Robotech a blight??
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 10, 2014 3:31:39 GMT
Because it came at a time that the rest of the industry in North America was going away from rewriting and editing the way they did for Robotech. Not only that, it is partially responsible for holding back legitimate commercial releases of further Macross material in North America due to Harmony Gold holding the Trademark for Macross which, while technically legal, is unethical as hell in my opinion.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 10, 2014 19:20:09 GMT
So... Harmony gold is a blight, and chose not to distribute product?
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 10, 2014 19:40:27 GMT
Why is Robotech a blight?? Honestly, I can't think of a word that more perfectly encapsulates the entire Harmony Gold Robotech strategy. At least... not one that you'll find in a regular dictionary. Urban Dictionary, on the other hand... Look at what Robotech is, and what it stands for. Its origins with Revell fit the literal definition of a "mockbuster"... it was a cheap, hackneyed effort to make a Transformers knockoff with as little effort and expense as possible. The Robotech animated series was the product of a process of rewriting that was already on its way out in the industry when the series was hastily slapped together by a crowd of hacks. They created NOTHING, and their input was little more than making a few preexisting setting connections more obvious and changing a few names, but to this day they refuse to even credit the people who actually created the content they're exploiting. They've been taking credit for someone else's work for THIRTY YEARS. You won't find a single line in the credits which even mentions the involvement of Studio Nue, Artland, AnimeFriend, StarPro, Studio Ammonite, Artmic, or MBS. It's borderline plagiarism. That's not even getting into Carl Macek's (re)writing practices, which sound alarmingly racist in hindsight... especially when combined with his oft-stated belief that he was IMPROVING "flawed" shows by removing them from anything resembling their original cultural context. Almost everything in the catalog of licensee-produced works Robotech has crosses the line into plagiarism and keeps going all the way into full-blown copyright infringement. Even Harmony Gold admits that most of it was a shameless cash-grab when they believed the franchise was so worthless it wasn't worth paying attention to what their licensees were even doing. This is a franchise with less creative integrity than fucking Transmorphers or Alien vs Hunter. Nothing proves that like the veritable buffet of lawsuit-worthy material in the comics and how every proposal for a new title Harmony Gold came up with was an attempt to ride Macross's coattails. Within five years of the show's first airing, Robotech was already a joke in the industry. The practice of rewriting anime to "Americanize" the characters and settings had already fallen out of use, and was seen as arrogant or even insulting to the audience and author. These days, opinion of rewrites is even lower because they're considerably more expensive than doing the job right. Nowadays, it's just a very embarrassing reminder of what were already considered bad practices in the anime industry's formative years. Nowadays, the only reason Harmony Gold is even keeping the lights on in the Robotech department is because they want to continue the stonewalling of Macross distribution on the off chance that one day, they'll frustrate Big West into giving them the distribution rights to the rest of Macross. They started on this shortly before Robotech 3000 tanked with a vengeance, and did so through a campaign of outright fraud and threats, and only attempted less illegal methods to stop Macross imports when Big West AND Tatsunoko simultaneously called them on it. Literally everything done since is nothing more than busywork to keep a trickle of money coming in so they can continue to hold out for an extorted salvation. There's a fucking REASON they don't quantify their supposed "success"... it's because in order to declare "success" the management there had to set the bar low enough to be a trip hazard in Satan's wine cellar. Their press releases are full of lies, half-truths, and exaggerations. Their interviews vary from complete horseshit to directly insulting to their own fans. The only way they can pretend to be successful is to lie through their teeth constantly. Their products are bootleg quality at the best of times and they charge their fans as much or more than competent companies do for similar products of reasonable quality. Even notoriously shitheaded companies like Comcast, EA, and Ubisoft aren't THAT dedicated to being total bastards. Practically their only achievements in going-on thirty years of incompetence and failure are frustrating Macross fans desire to have their favorite series available in the US through normal channels, jerking the chain of Battletech and MechWarrior fans, and irritating the fans of Transformers by threatening spurious legal action and making ridiculous demands. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 10, 2014 20:52:19 GMT
Soooo... Bunches of stuff in japan behind the scenes?
I likes Robotech when I was a kid. Didn't know any of that and rather enjoyed it.
You make it out like you drew the damn thing or something. That's funny.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 10, 2014 21:33:54 GMT
Soooo... Bunches of stuff in japan behind the scenes? ... I know we're close to a holiday and all, but your reading comprehension skills can't have failed you that badly. To sum it up nice and short for you... Robotech is a blight on the anime industry because: - Harmony Gold claims credit for work that isn't theirs... and have made zero effort to acknowledge the real creators of the material in 30 years.
- Carl Macek's dubbing practices and statements about same have veered dangerously close to overt racism.
- Harmony Gold's sole purpose for keeping Robotech around amounts to a frankly pathetic attempt at extortion.
- Harmony Gold's efforts to "protect" the Robotech franchise have taken the form of borderline illegal threats, fraudulent claims, and a great deal of frankly contemptible behavior.
- Harmony Gold lies consistently and continuously to its licensees and fans about almost everything... from the status of productions to their legal standing and the franchise's impact on the industry.
- Much of Robotech's licensee-created material infringes on multiple copyrights.
- Robotech's merchandise is of exceptionally poor, borderline bootleg quality.
- The Robotech franchise, despite being effectively dead, persists in sending threatening letters to other franchises over products which don't even infringe upon its rights.
- Harmony Gold's volunteer staff have repeatedly engaged in campaigns of libel, slander, and harassment in their official capacity as Harmony Gold-sanctioned workers, aimed at Macross fans. This has included cyber-stalking, harassment in public, making unfounded public accusations that Robotech's critics are pedophiles and child pornographers, and even attempting to persuade foreign animators whose fan works were shut down by Harmony Gold to file lawsuits against unrelated parties through a variety of other slanderous (or libelous) claims.
And there's also the rumor that Harmony Gold attempted to extort money from Palladium during their license renewal by getting them to buy the rights to Robotech 3000 sight-unseen...
Sufficed to say, the franchise is creatively bankrupt and quite a few of the people behind it act like first-class assholes.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 11, 2014 1:15:00 GMT
No my reading comprehension skills are fine. I'm kinda picking on you in good natured humor.  |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 11, 2014 1:16:20 GMT
You realize all those bullet points are behind the scenes things from the company. Not the actual cartoon itself. Right?
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 11, 2014 2:20:45 GMT
You realize all those bullet points are behind the scenes things from the company. Not the actual cartoon itself. Right? Yes, and I'm sure you realize that Robotech is not JUST the cartoon, but the franchise as a whole. The animated series is an uninspiring hackjob below the standards of the industry even back in the day... which is a big part of why almost nobody remembers it even exists. The asshole behavior of the franchise owners, now THAT got people's attention. Palladium, unfortunately, seems to have taken Harmony Gold's bad example deeply to heart lately... and are doing everything they can to ensure that no international backer walks away feeling like they didn't get screwed. That's one thing you can always count on where the Robotech franchise is concerned: any new project, no matter how well-intentioned, is guaranteed to abruptly go to pieces so fast that the bystanders have to worry about flying shrapnel while the people responsible are told that bringing up broken promises or issues with the project's handling is VERBOTEN. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 11, 2014 3:28:06 GMT
You mean THAT is why people don't remember it?
Not.. that it was 30 years ago and most people 'outgrew' the cartoons they watched as children?
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 11, 2014 4:52:12 GMT
You mean THAT is why people don't remember it? Not.. that it was 30 years ago and most people 'outgrew' the cartoons they watched as children? Well, yeah... shows get crap ratings because people AREN'T watching, and audiences generally don't remember shows they didn't watch. As terrifying a prospect as it is, people have no trouble remembering successful animated shows from decades ago... even ones that didn't (or couldn't) produce a sequel for decades like Voltron or Speed Racer. The ones that DID produce sequels did an even better job of remaining in the public consciousness like Transformers, Scooby-Doo, or the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Mass market nostalgia from decades ago is today's feature film fodder... for better or worse. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 11, 2014 6:49:13 GMT
Well yeah, but didn't Robotech fall into that as well? Isn't that the reason we got the second edition of Robotech from Palladium? The Shadow Chronicle movies?
I remember robotech fondly. I didn't think it sucked. I was just a child and all that stuff you listed up there didn't matter a lick to me. I was a kid. I just liked the cartoon with cool transforming jets and robots fighting with Aliens. I didn't watch the credits to know if the company gave the right credit to who. I surely didn't know about extortion or illegal threats. (Illegal threats?? REally? Over a japanese cartoon?)
"campaigns of libel, slander, and harassment" ?? lol Really?
"This has included cyber-stalking, harassment in public, making unfounded public accusations that Robotech's critics are pedophiles and child pornographers, and even attempting to persuade foreign animators whose fan works were shut down by Harmony Gold to file lawsuits against unrelated parties through a variety of other slanderous (or libelous) claims."
?? Really? Now... I don't know. but... that sounds pretty slanderous to me unless you have proof of such things. Cyber stalking over a 30 year old cartoon? Accusations of pedophilia, and child porn?
Mike take a breath and kinda read your post. You know you sound a lil crazy right? (I'm not saying it's untrue. I honestly don't know, but the way you present it, seems like a religious Zealot, attacking a compeating faith)
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 11, 2014 14:54:26 GMT
Sci-fi - Actually much of what Mike has stated is documented. Unlike here in North America, they take their anime VERY seriously in japan just as many here take what we call normal movies and TV very seriously. They are not "cartoons" to them but viable normal tv shows and movies.
HG is known as well as Palladium about their jump to litigate even if they have no basis for it.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 11, 2014 15:29:15 GMT
Well yeah, but didn't Robotech fall into that as well? [...] Not really... the Robotech series never achieved a level of popularity to give it decent name recognition, let alone to remain in the public consciousness the way shows like Voltron, Transformers, Scooby-Doo, or even Thundercats have. Joe Average off the street could likely pick Voltron, Optimus Prime, Scooby-Doo, or Liono out of a lineup, but if the general public connects the name "Robotech" to anything it's usually either the brand of pool-cleaning machines (Yes, there's even one named the Robotech 3000) or the Japanese sex toy unironically named the "Robotech thruster". Isn't that the reason we got the second edition of Robotech from Palladium? The Shadow Chronicle movies? We got the Shadow Chronicles movie (singular, there has been no continuation) and other things in the wake of Harmony Gold's third and (we hope) final desperate attempt to keep Robotech limping along... an attempt prompted by their failure to extort licenses and royalties from Big West and Studio Nue. They couldn't keep Macross goods out of the states through fraudulent claims about their license, so they had to get something - ANYTHING - out the door which used the content of the original shows so they could file for trademarks on all the names, logos, etc. of the series. That way, even if they couldn't stop other distributors from acquiring the rights to Macross's sequels or importing Macross merchandise, they could prevent those other distributors from selling that material by threatening to sue them over a trademark/wordmark violation on "Macross", "UN Spacy", or the UN Forces kite. Harmony Gold actually copped to this in a roundabout way a couple years back too... I surely didn't know about extortion or illegal threats. (Illegal threats?? REally? Over a japanese cartoon?) Really? It's a fairly well-known scandal. In 1999-2000, Harmony Gold sent a lot of threatening letters to import toy dealers, (fraudulently) claiming that their license to Super Dimension Fortress Macross gave them exclusive worldwide rights to all of its sequels as well and that those toy dealers would be taken to court for violating Harmony Gold's exclusive merchandising rights to Macross in the US over imported Macross Plus and Macross 7 goods. That was pretty much THE motivating factor behind the so-called " Macross rights dispute" in Japan... which was mostly Big West and Studio Nue sitting down with Tatsunoko to make sure everyone knew who owned what and trying to figure out why the hell Harmony Gold claimed to have the rights to all the sequels. Harmony Gold attempted to do an end run around the process in 2001 shortly after the first ruling the Tokyo district court handed down by obtaining the merchandising rights to DYRL so they could at least block all VF-1 toy imports. "campaigns of libel, slander, and harassment" ?? lol Really? "This has included cyber-stalking, harassment in public, making unfounded public accusations that Robotech's critics are pedophiles and child pornographers, and even attempting to persuade foreign animators whose fan works were shut down by Harmony Gold to file lawsuits against unrelated parties through a variety of other slanderous (or libelous) claims." ?? Really? Now... I don't know. but... that sounds pretty slanderous to me unless you have proof of such things. Cyber stalking over a 30 year old cartoon? Accusations of pedophilia, and child porn? Yeah, I know it sounds pretty damn crazy... but it's true. They targeted quite a few people, including me. Several Harmony Gold staffers, including Kevin McKeever (their PR man) were guests on the podcast series "Robotech Fan", that made a great many accusations about Macross fans being pedophiles, child pornographers, etc. They only stopped supporting it once the podcast host turned on them and started reaming them over Shadow Chronicles. The podcast continued to be endorsed by several Robotech.com moderators even after that point, and TalkShoe eventually had to threaten to shut the podcast down after more than one person started threatening legal action. Remember the Robotech fan film project Robotech Genesis that Harmony Gold shut down via a cease-and-desist a couple years back? I was contacted by the Serbian animator behind that project shortly after it happened, and I was informed that Robotech.com moderators MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC had tried to convince him to pursue legal action against me by claiming (initially) that I had sent a falsified cease-and-desist letter, and later by claiming that I had somehow strong-armed Harmony Gold into shutting their project down. Harmony Gold also went after the guy's DeviantArt page, and filed copyright violation claims against his Robotech fan art, as well as a good deal of stuff they didn't hold any rights to, including his Star Trek fan art and original works he had done for his day job. Mike take a breath and kinda read your post. You know you sound a lil crazy right? (I'm not saying it's untrue. I honestly don't know, but the way you present it, seems like a religious Zealot, attacking a compeating faith) My friend, the truth is a harsh mistress... and believe me, the crazy bits look even crazier when you're on the receiving end of it. I mean, seriously. Can you imagine how absolutely fucked-up it is, learning that a trio of grown-ass men (two of whom are ten years or more your senior) are holding hour-long podcast rants about what a criminal and sex offender you are because you disagreed with them about an obscure cartoon from 1985? Believe me, I fully understand just how surreal the Disney villain-esque antics of Harmony Gold look. You never expect that a company could be THAT devoted to jackassery in real life. It's the sort of thing that should be confined to fiction... but every now and again you encounter a real one. |
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Post by kryptt on Dec 11, 2014 17:44:53 GMT
At least all this jackassery will be over in a few more years. HG I'm sure will survive not having access to macross but I wonder if PB will. Then again PB attracts sycophants like HG does.
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 11, 2014 18:12:59 GMT
Sci-fi - Actually much of what Mike has stated is documented. Unlike here in North America, they take their anime VERY seriously in japan just as many here take what we call normal movies and TV very seriously. They are not "cartoons" to them but viable normal tv shows and movies. Eh... some anime, not all. Animation may not carry the same "that's for kids" stigma in Asian markets that it does in the west, but while Japan does often treat animation as a form of artistic expression just as viable as live-action cinematography, it's far from universal in its acceptance of animation as art. You wouldn't find much resistance to suggesting Space Battleship Yamato, Mobile Suit Gundam, or Super Dimension Fortress Macross were on the same level of "serious storytelling" as Star Trek or Star Wars. On the other hand, you wouldn't find many people willing to pretend that shows like Queen's Blade, Quaser of Stigmata, or ToLoveRu have much in the way of artistic merit. (They are, on the other hand, a great way for teenagers to get "tennis elbow".) HG is known as well as Palladium about their jump to litigate even if they have no basis for it. There are some occasions in the business world where you basically HAVE to do that in order to protect your rights or your intellectual property. The catch being that you're supposed to be sure you actually have grounds to object before you actually object. HG's major stumbling block is that they almost invariably look before that litigious leap and end up making spectacular assholes of themselves by failing to check the facts (e.g. 1999-2000), making ridiculous demands, and generally wasting their and everyone else's time to no useful end. At least all this jackassery will be over in a few more years. HG I'm sure will survive not having access to macross but I wonder if PB will. Then again PB attracts sycophants like HG does. We hope. Harmony Gold's license agreement with Tatsunoko Production Co. Ltd. is up in 2022, and thus far they've given Tatsunoko very little reason to consider renewing it. In light of the recent crash-and-burn failure of Robotech Academy, even many former Kool-Aid drinkers are asking uncomfortable questions about Robotech's future... most notably, whether it actually HAS one. They'll definitely weather the loss of the Macross rights, since Robotech's sales volumes are vanishingly small and shrinking fast (with just a few thousand customers worldwide buying their crap, they're running out of support) and their main line of work is real estate. Palladium's been at death's door since the so-called "Crisis of Treachery" and is likely to stay there until they suffer a big financial loss... though I admit I honestly thought a class-action lawsuit over RRT was going to be their demise. They've certainly done everything in their power to provoke one. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 11, 2014 22:40:19 GMT
There's quick to litigate, then there's accusations of pedophilia and child porn. Ya know?
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Post by MacrossMike on Dec 12, 2014 0:14:24 GMT
There's quick to litigate, then there's accusations of pedophilia and child porn. Ya know? Oh, I know... so you can imagine my reaction to both the content of the podcast and the fact that Harmony Gold employees and volunteer staffers had been publicly endorsing the podcast (and didn't withdraw their endorsement until the host turned on them). Mind you, the Harmony Gold employees responsible for Robotech are known to be prone to unprofessional behavior. Kevin McKeever, the Robotech franchise's public relations/marketing rep, was banned from MacrossWorld for trolling and posting personal attacks of a racially-insensitive nature. Accounts of various former Harmony Gold employees and volunteers paint a frankly revolting picture of Tommy Yune's professional conduct (the words "turf war" barely do justice to the Shadow Chronicles writing process). |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 12, 2014 1:43:45 GMT
*Chuckles and shrugs* I honestly don't know (Don't really care).
As an out sider, this is coming across like a severe fanboy case of 'sour grapes' taken to the 10th level.
But I fully admit to my ignorance of the issue. If all that stuff did happen as you said, you're right that it's crazier than fiction. As it sounds really crazy.
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