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Post by ninjabunny on Jun 14, 2014 18:17:30 GMT
Ok has anyone else noticed that popsycth guy keeps making outrageous claims that all new posters are "puppet" accounts for the "vocal minority"? It seems kinda dumb to make claims like that with out proof of any kind. He is even going as far as to claim things being said in threads that haven't been brought up. Maybe it's just me but those kind of claims (unfounded) are actually just as bad.
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Post by raiden on Jun 14, 2014 19:56:58 GMT
Yeah, I seen that too, I would respond to the guy and put him in his place, but I had NMI disable my account on the FotM.
Now I just sit back, eat popcorn and watch the show.
Just ignore the guy, he'll go away eventually.
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Post by Jaymz on Jun 14, 2014 20:57:10 GMT
pop has been around a while....he won't be going anywhere.
And Nightfactory is a tool
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jun 14, 2014 21:18:29 GMT
Not for nothing, but there are a few accounts that -appear- to be nothing more than fake accounts set up by some of the more bombastic members to mouth off. *shrugs* I'm not sure what the OP here is referencing.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 14, 2014 22:21:01 GMT
Ok has anyone else noticed that popsycth guy keeps making outrageous claims that all new posters are "puppet" accounts for the "vocal minority"? It seems kinda dumb to make claims like that with out proof of any kind. He is even going as far as to claim things being said in threads that haven't been brought up. Maybe it's just me but those kind of claims (unfounded) are actually just as bad. To be entirely fair, popscythe is probably drawing motivation from the small number of new users who've registered on the forums with the specific aim of voicing their complaints about the (doomed) Kickstarter and other products of late. Since criticism, and even some outright condemnation, of Palladium Books' staff and business practices has become a LOT more common in the past year or so thanks to the whole ongoing Robotech RPG Tactics clusterfuck, the dangerous stupids who defend Palladium Books regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of various complaints could very easily confuse the occasional new user who registered to complain for sockpuppet accounts created by what they're calling the "vocal minority" to make it appear that there are more dissatisfied people than there actually are. Of course, there may not be any actual confusion involved either... he may simply be using the accusation of them being malcontent user sockpuppets as a way of dismissing the concerns of the complaining parties he doesn't recognize. All told, yeah he's an ass... but that seems to be an increasingly common condition on both sides as time goes on. Ultimately, I think it's going to end up one of three ways: 1. The discontent with Palladium's merchandise continues to spread, ultimately leading to the company going out of business. (If Harmony Gold goes under, they may not have a choice.) 2. The Palladium Books staff finally gets tired of being badmouthed on their own forums (no matter how much they might deserve it), and make "non-constructive" criticism a banning offense... which will inevitably become the same policy Harmony Gold uses on its forums, that ALL criticism is non-constructive, leading the moderators to ban most of the users on the boards, killing the community except for a small number of suckups trying very hard to convince themselves the boards were always this way. 3. Palladium will take the Games Workshop option, and simply shut down their forums so they don't have to look at all the bitching anymore. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jun 15, 2014 0:50:01 GMT
I see three happening in the end regardless
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Post by raiden on Jun 15, 2014 0:57:39 GMT
Ok has anyone else noticed that popsycth guy keeps making outrageous claims that all new posters are "puppet" accounts for the "vocal minority"? It seems kinda dumb to make claims like that with out proof of any kind. He is even going as far as to claim things being said in threads that haven't been brought up. Maybe it's just me but those kind of claims (unfounded) are actually just as bad. To be entirely fair, popscythe is probably drawing motivation from the small number of new users who've registered on the forums with the specific aim of voicing their complaints about the (doomed) Kickstarter and other products of late. Since criticism, and even some outright condemnation, of Palladium Books' staff and business practices has become a LOT more common in the past year or so thanks to the whole ongoing Robotech RPG Tactics clusterfuck, the dangerous stupids who defend Palladium Books regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of various complaints could very easily confuse the occasional new user who registered to complain for sockpuppet accounts created by what they're calling the "vocal minority" to make it appear that there are more dissatisfied people than there actually are. Of course, there may not be any actual confusion involved either... he may simply be using the accusation of them being malcontent user sockpuppets as a way of dismissing the concerns of the complaining parties he doesn't recognize. All told, yeah he's an ass... but that seems to be an increasingly common condition on both sides as time goes on. Ultimately, I think it's going to end up one of three ways: 1. The discontent with Palladium's merchandise continues to spread, ultimately leading to the company going out of business. (If Harmony Gold goes under, they may not have a choice.) 2. The Palladium Books staff finally gets tired of being badmouthed on their own forums (no matter how much they might deserve it), and make "non-constructive" criticism a banning offense... which will inevitably become the same policy Harmony Gold uses on its forums, that ALL criticism is non-constructive, leading the moderators to ban most of the users on the boards, killing the community except for a small number of suckups trying very hard to convince themselves the boards were always this way. 3. Palladium will take the Games Workshop option, and simply shut down their forums so they don't have to look at all the bitching anymore. Pop and Nightfactory want to keep banging their heads together, let them. I'm willing to believe that the reason that there has been an influx of new users to the FotM that have been a bit more critical than the defenders would like is probably because of people who bought into the RRT KickStarter and want to vent their issues on the FotM, and not the KickStarter, in the vain hope of having their issues noticed. But that's just my theory, I could be very wrong. |
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Post by Jaymz on Jun 15, 2014 1:56:27 GMT
No that is quite likely
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Post by raiden on Jun 15, 2014 2:51:36 GMT
The only thing I've noticed as of late is the Palladium freelancers are starting to get a bit abrasive in their defenses of Palladium.
I realize they draw a paycheque from PB, and their responses are really just heavy sarcasm, but some of their responses are getting borderline douche-tastic.
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Post by Jaymz on Jun 15, 2014 3:19:48 GMT
Oh there are a couple to be sure that do that *nods* and they've done it before as well.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 15, 2014 5:30:22 GMT
I see three happening in the end regardless I'm not sure if they'd take the Harmony Gold route and declare all criticism to be verboten, but I'd bet money on them eventually going the Games Workshop route and shutting down their forums to spare themselves the bitching and/or eventually being driven out of business by either the failure of RRT or the collapse of Harmony Gold... both of which are virtually guaranteed to happen sooner rather than later. Pop and Nightfactory want to keep banging their heads together, let them. I'm willing to believe that the reason that there has been an influx of new users to the FotM that have been a bit more critical than the defenders would like is probably because of people who bought into the RRT KickStarter and want to vent their issues on the FotM, and not the KickStarter, in the vain hope of having their issues noticed. But that's just my theory, I could be very wrong. That was my theory as well... that the people coming to the Palladium Books official forums were hoping against hope that someone there might actually give a tinker's damn. More fool them, this is a Robotech project, which means the quality will be absolute shit even if they actually cared. The only thing I've noticed as of late is the Palladium freelancers are starting to get a bit abrasive in their defenses of Palladium. I realize they draw a paycheque from PB, and their responses are really just heavy sarcasm, but some of their responses are getting borderline douche-tastic. Well, yeah... but the complaints from the upset backers haven't exactly been a model of civility either. In part, they probably feel they're under fire for bad business practices that aren't their doing... |
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Post by raiden on Jun 15, 2014 5:43:11 GMT
PB will survive. As Jonny Knoxville once said of Steve-O, "Your ignorance is like a fucking shield," and PB's ignorance seems to be just that.
I can see them shutting down the forums for a bit though until all the heat dies down, and then bringing them back and doing what they can to limit conversation to ONLY gaming related topics (ie. "What page do I find the Perception rules in sourcebook X?").
As for the freelancers getting a little bit abrasive, I understand why they are getting that way, but they really should try to take the higher road when it comes to their responses. Let a rabid haters make their statements and claims, then refute them as business like as possible. They should avoid snark and sarcasm, especially in public forums like their Facebook page.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 15, 2014 6:37:49 GMT
Optimism! That's refreshing. Seriously though, they're barely hanging on by their fingertips and that's before they poisoned the well by helping massively mishandle the doomed prospect that was RRT. Like I've said before, that's an assisted suicide. The only question is whether Palladium's helping Ninja Division off itself, or vice versa. As Jonny Knoxville once said of Steve-O, "Your ignorance is like a fucking shield," and PB's ignorance seems to be just that. Pretty sure the only thing their ignorance is shielding them from is... well... money. If they weren't ignorant of their situation and the broader implications of their failure to address it, they could actually turn things around without actually needing to invest a ton of time and effort. Like my dear old mum used to say, "There's no cure for idiocy". As for the freelancers getting a little bit abrasive, I understand why they are getting that way, but they really should try to take the higher road when it comes to their responses. Let a rabid haters make their statements and claims, then refute them as business like as possible. They should avoid snark and sarcasm, especially in public forums like their Facebook page. Should... but unless I've missed a memo somewhere, they are still human. They've got tempers and will naturally feel a bit miffed that they're being condemned by association for Kevin's jackassery. If they were intelligent, they'd simply decline to comment altogether... but birds of a feather... |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Jun 15, 2014 7:10:56 GMT
I don't see them shutting down the forums. If for nothing else... they're so technophobic.. that they don't know about it enough to care. Not making an attack on the forums mods, but they don't even have someone on staff to moderate the forums. Noone that -works there- goes on the forums very much. We're told that over and over and over.
We get a post a week. Pre-written mind you (This was proven about a month ago when one of the posts went up on Tuesday but was referencing things that happened during the week and all week long as if it went up on Thurs or Fri) in a forum that doesn't allow responses.
Other than that, someone from Palladium may post.. once a week or every two or three weeks. Often short, and often then only a heads up to something they want to point at. Their Facebook is much the same. General purpose releases that point to the weekly update.
The only other time in recent memory we've seen them communicate is when one of them popped up on face book, to defend a forum moderator for implying he was banging a customer's wife. Likening it to a 'your momma' joke. I really wish I was kidding about that one. I damn near shit a kitten.
Long story short.... no. I don't think they'll shut the forums down. Because they don't frequent them, and don't care enough about um.
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Post by raiden on Jun 15, 2014 7:49:11 GMT
If I remember correctly, there was a time way back when (1998 or '99) when the forums were shut down because Sound Off had gotten so unruly that it spilled over into every other place on the boards and into the chats (50 chatters a night wasn't uncommon during that time period). It was only down for a month or so, and I think a whole slew of people were banned once the boards were reinstated.
And I remember the Facebook bomb that was the mod making an unseemly comment about someone's wife and the PB response to it. Why do you think I stopped buying their products and supporting them?
I miss the old days when Midnght was in charge. He was tough, but exceedingly fair to all.
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Post by Jaymz on Jun 15, 2014 12:21:38 GMT
That seems to be standard procedure in regards to social media interaction. That exchange about another persons wife wasn't even on their own Facebook page as I recall and it was by no means posted as a "yo momma" joke. If it had been why was it so hastily removed shortly afterward? Then there is the clusterfuck that happened on the KS comments page where a backer got on the KS comments claiming Jeff Burke was swearing and telling him off when he called the Palladium offices. A Palladium Staffer got on to "refute" him by getting into a pissing contest with the backer in the comments section. They just do not interact and when they do it is a mess. Alex with his "facts" that PDFs and Ebooks are a fad and not as popular as people may think for example. I hate to mention it but look at the Facebook fiasco that "forced" them to put their Official Facebook Page up "months earlier" than they wanted too. The fact, as you mentioned, that Kevin posts "Murmurs" that read like a pre written and pre thought out "update" where no one can respond. Imagine the responses to some of those shit shows of a murmurs.
As for the freelancers......yeah I'm with Mike. Unless they are in fact contributing to a game discussion, to which they are generally VERY helpful, they need to shut the fuck up as it pertains to customers complaints in regards to the companies pisspoor business practices and policies etc.
From my perspective as well, as "positive" Kevin keeps saying things are, I really have to wonder about that....
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jun 16, 2014 3:23:35 GMT
If I remember correctly, there was a time way back when (1998 or '99) when the forums were shut down because Sound Off had gotten so unruly that it spilled over into every other place on the boards and into the chats (50 chatters a night wasn't uncommon during that time period). It was only down for a month or so, and I think a whole slew of people were banned once the boards were reinstated. And I remember the Facebook bomb that was the mod making an unseemly comment about someone's wife and the PB response to it. Why do you think I stopped buying their products and supporting them? I miss the old days when Midnght was in charge. He was tough, but exceedingly fair to all. I recall that incident... And it was only for 3 days. And only 5 posters received any kind of ban. And only 2 were of indefinite duration (and were lifted after 90 days). The chats being down for a month? that was due to a tech/software issue that took Midnite that long to sort out (He would have the chats up for about 1 to 4 hrs each nite but then be forced to take them down again when the glitches returned.) |
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Post by raiden on Jun 16, 2014 5:51:07 GMT
My mistake. It's been a while since I even thought of that incident, plus I was more of a chatter than a poster. Still, I could have sworn that the Forum shut down went on longer though. I do remember that a lot of chatters at the time were grumbling about a lot of people getting banned, but again, that was a long time ago, and I'm not going to dispute your claim, since you're probably more of an authority when it comes to the boards of yesteryear than I ever will be.
Thanks for the correction Damian, cheers!
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jun 16, 2014 7:56:28 GMT
My mistake. It's been a while since I even thought of that incident, plus I was more of a chatter than a poster. Still, I could have sworn that the Forum shut down went on longer though. I do remember that a lot of chatters at the time were grumbling about a lot of people getting banned, but again, that was a long time ago, and I'm not going to dispute your claim, since you're probably more of an authority when it comes to the boards of yesteryear than I ever will be. Thanks for the correction Damian, cheers! Not an issue man... I never for once thought you were claiming to be the voice of authority on it. Just setting the record straight... (you would not believe how often that incident gets brought up in discussions about the boards). Also... I agree the Midnite years were the best era where the mods were concerned. (although there are a couple of current mods who are just as fair and low key as Midnite was). |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jun 16, 2014 8:01:31 GMT
pop has been around a while....he won't be going anywhere. And Nightfactory is a tool oy vey... Nightfactory... living proof that a little knowledge is dangerous. He needs to leave his Philosophy 101 book and the hyperlink to the "classic" debate fallacies site alone... Ever notice anyone who dares to disagree with him is using one of the "fallacies"? And yet his arguments are full of just as many of those "classic fallacies"? |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 16, 2014 14:54:56 GMT
He needs to leave his Philosophy 101 book and the hyperlink to the "classic" debate fallacies site alone... Ever notice anyone who dares to disagree with him is using one of the "fallacies"? And yet his arguments are full of just as many of those "classic fallacies"? Oh come on, he's not that bad. His obsession with classical debate fallacies seems to me to be a concerted effort to rein in his frustration over the massive idiocy, insane troll logic, and borderline illiteracy that often pass for acceptable debate practice on the FotM. The way I read him is as someone who's desperate to not snap and succumb to the entirely-justified urge to call some of the others there inept, inbred, illiterate, mentally-subnormal crimes against the gene pool. In short, he's trying to be polite. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 16, 2014 14:56:18 GMT
As for the freelancers......yeah I'm with Mike. Unless they are in fact contributing to a game discussion, to which they are generally VERY helpful, they need to shut the fuck up as it pertains to customers complaints in regards to the companies pisspoor business practices and policies etc. From my perspective as well, as "positive" Kevin keeps saying things are, I really have to wonder about that.... Personally, I'd extend the urgent need to STFU to the Palladium staff as well. These are the sort of staffers who should always be kept in a separate dimension from anything resembling a customer. |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jun 16, 2014 16:43:57 GMT
He needs to leave his Philosophy 101 book and the hyperlink to the "classic" debate fallacies site alone... Ever notice anyone who dares to disagree with him is using one of the "fallacies"? And yet his arguments are full of just as many of those "classic fallacies"? Oh come on, he's not that bad. His obsession with classical debate fallacies seems to me to be a concerted effort to rein in his frustration over the massive idiocy, insane troll logic, and borderline illiteracy that often pass for acceptable debate practice on the FotM. The way I read him is as someone who's desperate to not snap and succumb to the entirely-justified urge to call some of the others there inept, inbred, illiterate, mentally-subnormal crimes against the gene pool. In short, he's trying to be polite. he is coming across as arrogant not polite. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 16, 2014 17:13:59 GMT
he is coming across as arrogant not polite. To you, anyway... naturally, individuals will interpret his replies differently depending on their moods, personal likes and dislikes, etc. Personally, there are a lot of posters who exceed Nightfactory's ability to be annoying by leaps and bounds... but it seems churlish to go naming names since my whole point is literally "YMMV". |
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Post by ninjabunny on Jun 16, 2014 18:06:06 GMT
he is coming across as arrogant not polite. To you, anyway... naturally, individuals will interpret his replies differently depending on their moods, personal likes and dislikes, etc. Personally, there are a lot of posters who exceed Nightfactory's ability to be annoying by leaps and bounds... but it seems churlish to go naming names since my whole point is literally "YMMV". nightfactory is 50/50 sometimes trying to be polite other times annoying troll. Yeah everyone has that habit but nightfactory is becoming a little polarized. |
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 16, 2014 23:44:57 GMT
nightfactory is 50/50 sometimes trying to be polite other times annoying troll. Yeah everyone has that habit but nightfactory is becoming a little polarized. Yeah, but I'm sure I could say the same for everyone here at some point or other in their time on the Palladium forums... Anyway... I think it's a pretty safe bet that the paranoid/dismissive attitude about the new contributors (or just those popscythe doesn't recognize) is unwarranted as they are not, in fact, sockpuppets of existing members. Why? It doesn't work on a logical level. Existing people expressing some of their discontent usually already know that Palladium has not a fuck to give for things that are said on its Facebook or the FotM. When the attention rate given to user comments is 0%, the outcome is the same whether it's 1 x 0 or 2 x 0 or even 200 x 0.  While the Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter proved that there is no shortage of stupid people on the FotM, but I doubt there are many on those forums who are THAT stupid. |
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Post by raiden on Jun 22, 2014 19:35:00 GMT
No need to worry about Nightfactory anymore. The PB Gestapo brought down the ban hammer on him pretty harshly (and unjustly, depending on who you ask).
Things that I've concluded from reading the thread that got NF banned (and some others that were recently locked up tighter than Alcatraz):
1) Critisism of PB is BAD! Constructive or not, if you criticize, you're evil!
2) PB staffers and defenders/white knights DO NOT require facts to back up their arguments.
3) if you work for PB in anyway, you're protected from any and all rule violation repercussions.
4) if you pay off a mod, you're protected as well. (And openly defended no less)
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Post by ninjabunny on Jun 22, 2014 20:31:46 GMT
It's funny a few of those went right to me thinking "Mad man Mike". The same pb super fan who said he wanted to kill me openly on the forums. He didn't say it jokingly either he meant it. Yet he is still aroun claiming he knows info nobody else has, no wonder him and Liam get along so well imagnery worlds collade.
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Post by MacrossMike on Jun 22, 2014 21:22:35 GMT
1) Critisism of PB is BAD! Constructive or not, if you criticize, you're evil! 2) PB staffers and defenders/white knights DO NOT require facts to back up their arguments. 3) if you work for PB in anyway, you're protected from any and all rule violation repercussions. 4) if you pay off a mod, you're protected as well. (And openly defended no less) Well, that was quick... they're already going the Harmony Gold route. With a little luck, Harmony Gold's management will finally decide to let Robotech go because it's not making any money, and Palladium will be up shit creek without a boat, let alone a paddle. Startin' to think that putting both companies out of everyone's collective misery would be a mercy killing at this point... |
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Post by raiden on Jun 22, 2014 21:58:56 GMT
Madmanmike is a douche. Even his interactions with customers on Facebook are douche-tastic. This kind of shit only serves to remind me why I stopped buying PBs stuff.
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