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Post by Jaymz on Apr 26, 2014 3:08:20 GMT
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Post by kryptt on Apr 26, 2014 4:29:01 GMT
Don't forget the slew of new fantasy books that happen to be in his head now. Which means their probably 98% done.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Apr 26, 2014 6:39:28 GMT
Being realistic, we've been told the book is 'Done'. I read it as "Almost done, with some details to hammer out and finish lay out and what not".
When we look at the wrest of the murmur, we see that he's due at a Convention next weekend. So the way I read it is "We'll take next week. Make sure NG2 is finished, and get ready for the convention. We'll do the convention over the weekend and come home"
Anyone that's followed Palladium for any length of time know they, collectively, have the immune system of someone with full blown AIDS or some other immunity deficiency. And they take cons, about as well as I would flying 20 time zones, 3 times in a row or something. I.E. they need recovery time when they come home. Usually a week or two. Depending on what breed of Ebola or Plague they pick up there or whatever. (That's not me being mean. Jus' sayin')
So... Looking at that all together we have "A week or so to finish up NG2 while we prep for the convention. Three days of convention over the weekend, then a week recovery. That gets them up to May 9th or so. If they get the book to the Printer between May 7th and May 9th (Likely their actual target to get it to printer. Not Monday April 28th) Then .... yep.. you see it now.. May 23rd is two weeks later. Which would fit in with the traditional '2 weeks at the printer' turn around.
That's my guess. The book is 'almost done' but he's been saying that for months and with the convention coming up the company wants it 'announced' as "DONE" before the convention. So they can do the convention with out it over their heads. And even tell people at the convention that it's done, and coming. Let's be honest, they're going to be fielding ALOT of questions at the convention. "Is NG2 ever going to be fucking done for fucks sake!?!?" Would be one of them. Announcing it's 'done' now... gives it a week to filter into the minds of the convention goers, and gets THAT out of the chamber. Hell it might be 100% done, but they're just not planning on messing with the printer the week before the con, and are PLANNING on getting it to the printer the week after.
I could be wrong. They might pop up at the convention with a POD run to sell there, with the full run coming later. (NG1 did)
That's just how I read it. actually going to the printer about the 9th and then back two weeks later on the 23rd.
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Post by Jaymz on Apr 26, 2014 13:20:37 GMT
Which me means the shenanigans are getting WORSE.
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Post by raiden on Apr 26, 2014 16:02:15 GMT
When I read the bit about them trying to push out new (old?) books for PF and BTS2, I actually laughed out loud. The rate at which he says he works and the rate at which things get done do not match up at all.
Looks for those new books to be released sometime in 2016-17, because "The fans demanded so much more for these books than ever."
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Post by damianmagecraft on Apr 26, 2014 16:40:55 GMT
Weird...
Usually when he says "done" he follows that with "it is at the printers" but not this time? Hmmm...
Not going to jump to any conclusions.
But I do find it out of character.
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Post by MacrossMike on Apr 26, 2014 18:22:58 GMT
Which me means the shenanigans are getting WORSE. *makes the falling-cartoon-character whistling noise* |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Apr 26, 2014 19:16:17 GMT
Did anyone notice the.. I'm not sure if it's a threat or what.. but the point where he makes a point of saying he wasn't going to expand or add anything new to further books?
It sounded really petulant to me. "Oh well NG2 is so late because I added all this material, but all I hear is your bitching about how late it is. I added all this material and you dared to point out how late the book is? Well! I hope you're happy. The next books are going to be small with no additions!! That'll teach ya! Bitch at me that a book is over a year late! Well. We'll see how you like THIS!!!!"
Very petulant sort of feeling off of that. Thing is, it's not like... "Not" Adding on things, will suddenly make the books on time. We know Palladium. The books are going to be late. Period. Lets be honest. They're going to be -VERY- Late. Period. Him getting mad and not adding in extra material isn't going to get them on time. It's just going to get us smaller, late books.
*shrugs* I don't know. I just picked up a very petulant tone in there.
I don't typically deal well with petulance. I tend to smack the shit out of it...
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Post by Josh Hilden on Apr 26, 2014 19:31:43 GMT
SSDD
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Post by MacrossMike on Apr 26, 2014 20:50:20 GMT
Did anyone notice the.. I'm not sure if it's a threat or what.. but the point where he makes a point of saying he wasn't going to expand or add anything new to further books? It sounded really petulant to me. "Oh well NG2 is so late because I added all this material, but all I hear is your bitching about how late it is. I added all this material and you dared to point out how late the book is? Well! I hope you're happy. The next books are going to be small with no additions!! That'll teach ya! Bitch at me that a book is over a year late! Well. We'll see how you like THIS!!!!" That's about how I read it, yeah... As I've noted elsewhere, the problem with a small business like Palladium where the staff is buddy-buddy with the owner is that they're not going to identify problems nearly as readily for fear of hurt feelings. Kevin has become so accustomed to his staff's gentle assurances that he can do no wrong and that everything that comes from his pen is a flawless gem that this sudden bout of very frank criticism over issues with Robotech RPG Tactics and the delays with Northern Gun 2 has driven him to something approaching a meltdown. The way I read Kevin's quiet little verbal tantrum there, he came across as saying something very much like "Fine! If this is the gratitude I get for sharing my shining, golden ideas with you ungrateful wretches, then I won't bother putting any more than the minimum effort that's required into the next couple books. We'll see how you like it when your books are out on time less late, but with almost no content!" I don't typically deal well with petulance. I tend to smack the shit out of it... On reflection, I really hope that Kevin realizes how lucky he is to effectively be his own boss. Had he posted an outburst like that while in the employ of any competent gaming company, at the very least he would've gotten would've been a disciplinary write-up and an order to issue a public apology immediately. More realistically, he could expect to be replaced as the voice of the company by someone sane, and possibly even find himself on the receiving end of summary dismissal. |
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Post by joshuagoliath on Apr 26, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
Funny, what I got out of all that was tjat pretty much every book from now on will be a tiny one
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Post by damianmagecraft on Apr 26, 2014 21:58:06 GMT
Funny, what I got out of all that was tjat pretty much every book from now on will be a tiny one Yeah I do not believe that for a second... It goes too much against his nature to allow that. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Apr 26, 2014 23:47:59 GMT
Oh, I think he can do some smaller ones. The previous DR book was 48 pages, when you add in art and title pages and what not you're talking 25-30 pages of content.
You could put out 6 of those a year and not break a sweat. To be honest you could likely put out 8 to 10. A month off for grab bags and other sort of stuff. Call them 6-10 'releases' as they're not really full 'books'. Looks like you're doing alot.
Even if they don't stick to 48, but do the 96, you could still do those fast. Even jumping to 116 or 148, you're looking at faster than 256. I don't think they drop in time directly the same but still.
Yes. I do think we'll see some smaller books. If for nothing else, it'll help to pump up the 'release count' which has been dropping more and more. Last year they did 2 and a half or so right? (Counting a 48 page book as a half).
Little tiny splats will help inflate the release count and even if it's not more, will make it look like it's more.
Bad thing for us, is we'll end up paying more for content. We'll pay more for two 48 page books than we do for one 96 page, etc.
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Post by Prysus on Apr 27, 2014 2:25:14 GMT
Greetings and Salutations. Wow, I guess a lot of this is all perspective. Written word can be tricky like that, as there's no facial expressions or body language to read. I read it the first time and had a different impression, and read it the second time (after this thread) just to look at it with fresher eyes. My thoughts (for what they're worth) ...
1: Norther Gun 2 is Done ... Well, I definitely see what people are talking about with their concerns, though I (personally) disagree. I'll take people's word on the usual 2 week turn around (I don't really keep track myself), but what he said is the "printer will give us a ship date next week." After that he mentioned what he guesses. Maybe he just guessed wrong, maybe he actually learned to err on the side of caution and give it more time just in case (okay, I'm not believing that one yet), or maybe this is the printer's busy time of year and it tends to be slower this time of year (which he might legitimately be aware of).
I'd like to think a) They sent it off and the printer isn't open on the weekend (or late Friday) so they won't receive an estimate until next week (Monday most likely, but Weekly Updates don't happen 'til the end of the week), b) Same as the first, but do to them being closed they'll just send it off Monday instead, c) Printer has it and they're seeing when they could work it into their schedule. While I don't tend to give the "98%" or "half done" or "quick edit" much weight (basically anything that involves Kevin estimating) I do tend to think he tries to tell the truth (he's an optimistic guy, so I think he tends to shoot for the moon no matter how unlikely the rest of us see it as). However, if he says it's done, I'd like to believe him. As I said, I'm not confident in Kevin's estimates, which is why when reading that situation I'd be more likely to ignore May 23rd (his estimate) than the fact he said it's done (which should be a fact). I could be wrong (I just hope I'm not).
2: "New releases are finally starting to flow. I will make a point of not expanding books no matter how many new ideas surface or inspirational artwork is sent in from Palladium’s spectacularly talented artists. We have a zillion great books we want to put into your hands. Good things are coming. Keep those imaginations burning bright."
Wow, rereading it with the way stated in this thread would be pretty screwed up. I can see how it could be read that way. That's not how I read it. For me (and again, I think this is a lot about how much we put into it ourselves) is that adding all that content has been a pain in the arse! Earlier in the thread we had comments like: "After six weeks of seemingly endless additions (the equivalent of an entire, second 160 page book!), I’m quite convinced I am, indeed, a crazy gaming geek." Similar comments have been found in past Murmurs and Weekly Updates.
To me, this read as a guy who has put in a lot of time and effort (6 weeks in his view) of just add ons, which is the equivalent of a second book, and he considers himself "crazy" to have done it. I read this more like the guy who just pushed a heavy boulder up a really tall and steep mountain ... and he's exhausted saying: "Worth it, but never doing that again." However, when the situation arrives, he'll probably be the guy who says: "Well, it was a lot of fun ... sure, why not!" I think his intent is that he'll cut back on adding and rewriting so much and get the books out faster (for business and for fans). However, like most of his estimations, I won't count on that. I like the guy, but I think he just can't resist.
As for the smaller books aspect of it, Kevin has admitted (for some time now) that he likes small books. They're easier to edit and can be turned around quicker. He's made no secret of this fact. However, most of the submissions tend to be huge monster manuscripts that end up hundreds of pages. This isn't really going to make everything small books, just means (even if he does what he says) they won't bloat up. Northern Gun 2 blew up 2 or 3 times the original plan (and this has happened with various other releases in recent times). Megaverse in Flames is (currently) estimated for something like 164 pages (on the higher end I think that was). That's not going to suddenly decrease. That just means he doesn't plan to have it end up a 224 page book. I don't see that as a threat. *Shrugs.* I guess, in general, I don't see "I'll try to do what I say" as a threat. Don't get me wrong, I can see (when I try) how it reads the other way, I just think it's how you WANT to read it.
3: "Seriously you think MiF will be out in June along with Graveyard Earth and REF Marines by July? HAHAHAHA funny one." ...
Well, yeah, I doubt they'll be out by those times. Though I think I am probably one of the few who believes all three might actually be out by the end of the year. Graveyard Earth is probably a small book. I think those take a month (a little more tops) to put out. So that shouldn't be too hard. Robotech books ... can't recall (don't follow it much), but I think they have decent turn around times (considering there's a manuscript already in hand). As others have said in teh past as well, they may have an obligation for how many they need to put out. So unless there's a hold up at Harmony Gold, I think this one has a fair shot. The real question (for me) is Megaverse in Flames. However, if he can do it in 4 months (and this is Carl Gleba, I want to say his last books were quick-ish, for PB that is, turn arounds) so that MIGHT be reasonable. If he can do MiF in 4 months, I think we have a fair shot at the other two. Though I admit, I'm not holding my breath for that.
4: BtS2 & PF ... well, heh, okay, I shook my head at this one. I think he really intends to do these things (I think in his mind he really thinks he might be able to do these), I'm just not counting on them in the foreseeable future (though the PF one did bug me for separate reasons).
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I'm not blindly loyal to PB, but I try to give them (and everyone else for that matter) the benefit of the doubt and read things in the best way possible. That's just my take on things, for better or for worse. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all. |
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Post by Jaymz on Apr 27, 2014 2:31:38 GMT
Oh I think those three books will be out by years end.....and that's it. That would be four books and that is what Palladium is generally capable of....
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Post by Prysus on Apr 27, 2014 3:12:03 GMT
Oh I think those three books will be out by years end.....and that's it. That would be four books and that is what Palladium is generally capable of....
Greetings and Salutations. Agreed.
And sorry, think I've just seen enough people who seem to think even getting MiF out this year is unlikely (or at best the only other book that'll be released this year) that I commented on it in general. Wasn't directed at you. I just don't post often, so when (and where) I do, I often go into things I've avoided saying another place (or time).
3-4 is pretty common. 2 is a horrible year, and 5 is rather unlikely (though possible). 6 or more would be a miracle. This goes pretty much for every year until Palladium actually changes something.
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Post by ninjabunny on Apr 27, 2014 5:47:13 GMT
Wow damn lot said.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Apr 27, 2014 8:26:28 GMT
I think we'll get MiF out this year.
I think we'll get another lil 48 page Dead reign splat out this year.
Anything past that? I have no faith in.
If you swing by the Official Forums and take note of the..... interesting aspects of just -shipping- the robotech mini's once they come in (When, they manage to cross the sea) when ever they land... it's going to take ages to get them mailed out. Ages as in "I don't mean a day or two" or even a week or two. Just shipping those things once they come in, is going to take weeks an weeks and weeks. Even with volunteers and people working 8 hour days. That's going to take alot of time out of the scheulde that normally isn't. A month or more is going to be spent just getting those things in the mail when they come. And it might happen twice before the end of the year. You factor in that Grab bags go for two or three months towards the end of the year....
Not a lot of time let for 'working on books'.
Some people are chalking the Robotech book in, due to the beilef that Palladium is required to produce one a year. Thing is we don't know if that's so, and if it is so, if the mini's will fullfill that obligation. I'm not sure.
As to the "I do tend to think he(Kevin) tries to tell the truth" Thing above.
I'm sorry, but I don't any more. I just don't. "Oh he's so optimistic" Well so is my 11 year old, but even he knows the difference between being hopeful for something and saying it's going to happen. Kevin's also in what, his 50s or 60s? Guy's an adult. When a baby poops itself you don't spank the baby. it's a baby. When a 30 year old does it, it's not cute or something to just smile and nod your head, about. Kevin's not quite old enough for it to be senility either.
Kevin's been in the business 3 decades now. There's no excuse for the shit any more. If you miss every release date you set yourself, then it's not optimism. It's a lie. If you set dates you know you can't hit. It's not optimism. It's a lie. If it happened once or twice. Hey. Stuff happens. It's happened to all of us. Lieing to your customer base 50+ Times year is different.
When huge portions of your customer base, read your weekly updates and literally laugh out loud or roll their eyes, because they know the information there in is not going to come to pass, You're not fooling yourself with 'optimism' You know you're telling a lie.
That or it's a some sort of mental disorder. But that's going far out there. The simplest answer is usually the correct one. The simplest answer is, that he lies.
The bad thing is, that it's almost 52 times a year we get lied to by Kevin.
I'm sorry, I just don't think he's SO fucking stupid that after 30 years in the business, he's unable to estimate the time needed for HE to produce a book. I've read his work. While it's not DUNE or anything, he's just not that dumb. It's his 9 to 5 job. One he's had for 30 years. If he can't figure out after 30 years how long it takes to make a book, then there's something seriously wrong. And again. I don't think he's that stupid.
When his own customers LAUGH, or roll their eyes at his weekly release dates, and they have NOT been in the business 30 years. That should tell you something.
Sorry but no. He's not trying to tell the truth. He's telling lies. And he knows it.
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Post by Prysus on Apr 27, 2014 14:37:10 GMT
I think we'll get MiF out this year. I think we'll get another lil 48 page Dead reign splat out this year. Anything past that? I have no faith in. Greetings and Salutations. Fair enough. I hadn't taken the shipping of RRT into consideration. You have a good point. As to the "I do tend to think he(Kevin) tries to tell the truth" Thing above. Well, I definitely hear what you're saying, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong, per se ... However, guess I've known enough people that do that kind of thing. My brother (who I love, at least the one I still talk to and say [bleep] to the rest ... but that's another story entirely) comes to mind. He's the kind of guy who'll say he'll be back in 5 minutes, and there are times you just know it's not going to happen. You may not know why yet, you just know it's not going to happen. Might be an hour later that you hear shouting and you realize the ex- showed up, or he'll return a couple hours later and some other incident happened (involving some friend, or the cops, or the car breaking down, or ... etc.) As my brother (when we still lived together) I could say: "Uh-huh ..." "What?" "*Look.* Come on ... really?" He might conceed, or he might stick to it and be determined to try and prove me wrong ... and then prove me right as much as he hates it. If he does conceed, it's typically because I'm his brother and he knows I'm right. Having some stranger, on the other hand, try to tell that is just more insulting. I don't consider Kevin like a brother, and as such if I went up to tell him he doesn't know what the {bleep} he's talking about ... I'd expect him to take offense, as he should (even if I'm right). In both cases, if everything goes perfect and smooth, the time they tell us would be truth. This is a genuine estimate, it's just not a realistic one. Something comes up, something always comes up. For some though (and as I've said I've known a few), they're determined that this time will be different. They want to believe that this time things will go their way. Now sometimes the problems that arise are problems of their own creation, but that doesn't change that they want this time to be different. This is the time they'll prove everyone wrong. It just never is. I don't fault people for having unrealistic expectations though. Now with Kevin it is a bit different. Kevin runs a business. As such, those unrealistic expectations can have a greater negative effect. However, I don't consider Kevin a professional businessman. He may have been in the business for 33+ years, but I don't consider him a businessman. I might consider him a professional writer and/or artist (people's opinions on that can vary, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on those two), but not a professional businessman. As such I look at him as an individual, and I know others like that. I don't expect him to be perfect, nor do I expect him to be a professional businessman (that's just not him). Sometimes I'll mention things to others just to drive me (though I won't always make it, but I figure if I tell others it might give me that extra edge to accomplish that goal when otherwise I wouldn't), my brother gives unrealistic estimates (this time will be different!), etc. I see these things in myself, and others I know. While I don't think it's best for the company, I don't hold it against the individual. Take that for what you will. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all. |
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Post by Sci-Fi on Apr 27, 2014 20:35:05 GMT
A very well thought out reply. Thank you for writing it. I totally see what you're saying and how you're looking at it. I agree that while he's an artist (One who creates art, his being the written word), I see him as a business man as well. It 'is' more than a hobby. He just treats it like it's a hobby and not a business. So, in my mind he's a gifted artist (Hey, lets be fair, i don't have 100s of books with my name on the spine. he does) he's a very poor business man. I just wish he'd improve that aspect, or hire on someone to handle that aspect, while he does what he loves. Creating and writing.  I do see your view as a valid one and you've articulated it well. I just hold a slightly different view myself. |
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