The Start to a Revised System

[rocue]

Hello my name is Gus Galarnynk and I'm working on revising the game's system. The document will explain everything but, basically, I've played for 10 years and I've watched other RPG's revise, expand, and flourish while we are still stuck on 1.0. Don't take this the wrong way I LOVE this game and I play it almost every weekend. I am even thrilled to go to GenCon this year with part of my group. Yet, to me every book published doesn't feel, I don't know, like it's adding content. I feel like we're stuck on the same track, repeating in different areas. MAYBE this is the quantity of books coming out and being to sluggish for my taste. MAYBE this is the want for more magical content (the stuff I love to play) but I think the root of the problem is the system. I want this game to be HUGE and when I see things like the kick starter reach 1.5 million dollars I know there is demand out there. For the sake of time and so I don't repeat myself, I've begun work on a new system. It'll be slow in its creation at first and is only driven by my dreams and everyone's vocal support but if you like it and bare with me... Maybe we could change the face of this game and push it back into the golden years (of mankind). 


RevisedSystem.pdf (87.78 KB)

[Adam of The Old Kingdom]

Got any more?

and what is your aim for this, to modify, create your own core, expand the description of?

[rocue]

Jan 20, 2014 23:11:57 GMT Adam of The Old Kingdom said:

Got any more?

and what is your aim for this, to modify, create your own core, expand the description of?

I have almost the entire core redesigned as of today. I'm still making sure combat is what I want it to be and ergonomic as possible but nothing is typed past what you see here. The reason for this is two-fold: 1) I'm doing this in my free time and balancing my normal hobbies (ie. actually GM-ing the game) 2) I don't know if anyone will actually care. I think I've committed myself to rewriting the core with better rules and mechanics splashed in for now but if this catches on I'll rewrite somethings I don't plan to currently. One example of this is Skills. Right now, I'll make it more ergonomic and easier to use but I won't be condensing preexisting skills nor making new ones, only improving the system. So I would consider this a new core that is designed in part to transfer easily from the old. Did you like?

[Adam of The Old Kingdom]

plenty of experience on this forum.

Kevin will likely not change his system, it's not what he cares about, he cares about story.

make it your concise rule set. don't over do the text. come back to it after 2 or more days and reread it to see that it says what you want simply and clearly. this is to separate the writing from your brain filling in the blanks and so that the rules as presented are as free of unintended interpretation as you want.

I stopped counting the number of rebuilds and tweeks I have done to PB. trying to do lots of things but in the end I play vaguely as written and try to focus on story. the stuff I write down is for that game group cause it's a s[ecific application of a spell or ability and I need to be consistent with the group.

[rocue]

Jan 21, 2014 12:01:26 GMT Adam of The Old Kingdom said:

Kevin will likely not change his system, it's not what he cares about, he cares about story.


Well I completely understand that point of view but you can't sell a game with the summary being "It'll work if the GM can look past the rules." I love the setting and I think it has the potential for those great stories but if we want this game to match up with some of the leading games in AAA quality we need the system to progress with the company. Right now I'd imagine we're not attracting too many newcomers on merit alone, nor is it easy to summarize any piece of the game other than its "the mega-verse with infinite possibilities". 

I'll take your tips to heart. I too have a group where I bend the rules around them in the funnest way possible so that they can enjoy their vision of the characters and I don't want to get rid of that. But when they ask to go to Australia I have one player who KNOWS there is half a continent missing. That the book is quite old as is and loves the place but doesn't want to go nor believes we actually CAN go till the second book is out. We're fixing up right now (with NG) something North America has been missing for awhile. It just feels out of order and the list only gets longer of books we want to see. That's money literally waiting around to buy the things we want to see. It wouldn't take much to remake the core (As I hope to show) and it could be done in such a way that we can take the old books like England and have them redone and more importantly expanded in a month. Whole books from the past could be reprinted in a more ergonomic and exciting system; jump starting the game again. Do you know what I'm trying to say? I don't know if I'm doing this right. I'm extending outside of my bubble in an attempt to get answers.

[Adam of The Old Kingdom]

I know exactly what you are saying. we all have at some time hoped that Kevin would move PB to 3rd Ed. and systematicly plan the rebuild of the core rules with month on month reprinting of every book for 3rd ed. to leave the past of perceived system issues behind and allow people to re-engage with the settings and new people to discover it under the 3rd ed badge.

don't set your hopes on Australia II coming out. it was submitted as 1 manuscript and a source book.
PB have had all they needed to "polish" into book 2 since the beginning.

You've made a good start. you've diffined the attributes, their use and how they mechanically connect to the skill and combat resolution systems. I look forward to reading more.

[rocue]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[writersblock]

First off, you use the word ergonomic a lot. I am not sure by the context that it means what you think it does. Please explain what you mean when you say "ergonomic".

I have three problems with this conversion:

1) Clearly it is a Rifts oriented conversion. Commenting on stuff like options to play other than humans (unless you are talking mutants and aliens, most of which use the same 3D6 and such in HU) suggests that. My problem here is one of thinking in terms of the world. Humans are SUPPOSED to be lesser and greater in different ways that the other creatures and such of that world. Humans being weaker or the like, than say any Dee Bee race, is only seen as a failing by people focusing on munchkin gaming and combat oriented situations.

The reality is, even today, that some people are smarter, faster, stronger, better looking...whatever...that others.

Personally I don't see that as a problem with the system as much as the players.

You say at one point "The Second issue was, at a simple glance, a player couldn't
compare themselves to another character if they fell within a
different region of strength."

This is entirely wrong. They CAN compare themself: They are either weaker or stronger. Just like...real life.

Now, if what you meant to say was that they cannot compare in capability, or capacity, that is an entirely different thing, but not an issue of the system as much as an issue among players.

In NO gaming group should the player characters all be equally good at all things. There should be differences. One will be the strongest, the prettiest, the fastest, the smartest....just like real life. It is that diversity that gives a party its strength.


2) I don't agree with the way you did the stats.

It starts right off with the descriptions of what each one is. I disagree, feeling you vastly oversimplified, with more than half of them.

For example, MA is more than using "intelligent means"...it holds relationships to charisma, charm, and much more.It can be expressed with a look, a simple means of entering a room, etc. Much of it is entirely unconscious.

You say Speed reflects meters/yards in a three second span. Clearly an attempt to simplify Pally's Spd x 20 is yards/meters in a minute. I liked that since I always found their one minute conversion clunky since melees are more important.

I wish you had included more about the Speed attribute, but I am assuming you mean to pretty much leave it unchanged.

While I agree Pally has SERIOUS problems with both their stat bonus/penalty arrangement, their seemingly arbitrary assignment of upper limits, and much much more, I don't like the way you attempted to solve it.

For one, I entirely disagree with bonuses starting at 11. This does not accurately reflect things.

16-18...the reason this is both the level of getting the additional D6 added as well as where bonuses start is that this is the stat level considered to be the beginning of the "Olympic Class" truly exceptional stats.

An IQ 10, for example, is both statistically (on 3D6 9-10) and in North America at least (100 IQ) average person. I cannot see any justification for a bonus at IQ 11. Nor for PS or the others either.

About the only stats change I liked was the addition of ME to Coma/Death.

We have to remember that above 24 is getting into the really amazing once in a life time super - heroic stats. We can't picture a PB 25 for example. Helen of Troy, if she was the amazing beauty legend holds, was likely a PB 24-25.

Your lift and carry is all screwed up. Arnold Schwarzenegger, just before making Conan, based on his lift and carry records, had a PS in the 19-21 range (I figured it out exactly for Hardware Unlimited, but forget now). Look at his build in Conan (he'd LOST mass since his professional days). Look at his lift records (Google is your friend). Your system throws such things as weight lifting all out of whack.

Separating Parry/Dodge/Strike Bonuses is an unnecessary complication and does not reflect any real problem with the system. Generally speaking a more agile individual is going to be more nimble, quick with their hands, etc. There is no logical disconnection between striking and parrying, nor parrying and dodging.

Your creation of scales (Augmented, Robotic, Supernatural) is an unneeded complication of Pally's manner of doing it. While I totally agree with raising the upper stat caps (honestly, I have never applied them at all. If in combination you get higher than 30 or whatever, we simply extrapolated bonuses based on the existing charts).

In Pally, Robotic and Supernatural are merely descriptions used to relate different classes of ability. I relate these to the old Star Wars D6 things...Character Scale, Speeder Scale, etc. They are all part of the same thing, but each gradient takes you to a different level of power. In the case of Pally, it means different Lift/Carry amounts, and the like.

Now, I don't for a second say the way Pally deals with these works, but it seems to fall together more logically that your version does.

What you did for PB and MA with the "skills" (or whatever; powers, I don't know) numbered 1, 2, 3 is really confusing and needs to be reworded, better explained, and overall redone. It is unclear what you are talking about, how these effects would be applied in game play, what the in game effect is (on other players as well as NPCs), etc.


And as a small side note: I do not see any difference in the saving throws from your version and Pally's yet you talk about how "In the new system there will only be 7 saving throws necessary, all others from the past will combine into one of the new 7.". You then go on to use Illusions as an example of one of the "other saves".

I think you took that wrong. When someone gets an additional save bonus, against illusions say, that bonus is specifically added when saving versus illusions. It is not a separate saving throw as much as them being exceptionally resistant to that particular form of magic. I believe you may have confused additional bonuses with additional types of saving throw.

I cannot think of a single specific additional saving throw not already covered in the chart you made, by Pally already.


3) Your damage chart is way off. For one, no normal person does MDC. There are power lifters today that approach the sort of strength your chart says lets their punch do MDC. Think about what that means. You are saying a normal flesh and blood human can punch a tank to destruction. Let alone kicks, which generally do more damage.

You fail to take into account the dramatic effect skills and training have on stats. With your system, anyone who rolls a good education becomes well within reach of MDC combat. Let's say I roll a 16, get a 2 on my D6 giving me a stat 18. Without a Martial Art, mutant power, class bonus or anything, just taking 4 Physical skills, I get a shot at 30. If I take anywhere near all of them, easy 31 or higher without any prob.

Basically, you are setting up a power scale where all physical training and martial arts characters are going to be punching right through their SDC opponents on the first hit.



Sorry to be critical, but I have been playing Pally since 1986 or so and all I see in your revision is the need for a lot more consideration and work.

I am honestly not trying to be a jerk about this. I used to write for a living. I know what it is like to have people be critical of it and I feel bad just doing it. You wanted feedback and I am sorry but mine is pretty much all bad.

I would never use these rules you made up. They create more problems than Pally's ones do.