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Post by joshuagoliath on Dec 30, 2013 23:26:07 GMT
I'm not talking about new books, or "clarifications", or adding new things in. I mean if you could change one thing about the ESTABLISHED world, what would it be?
I think the one thing I would change is probably the animosity between elves and dwarves. I'd crank it up a couple of notches, and make it be some REAL racial tension, to the point of about ready to be a new war. (Which, btw, when I run a game, I DO crank it up)
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 31, 2013 7:10:09 GMT
I would make the library bigger!
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Janus
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Post by Janus on Jan 8, 2014 4:59:04 GMT
I would have change the lackluster release from 0 to the whole world is written out.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 8, 2014 5:28:01 GMT
Yeah, that's not changing what's already out there. If I was talking about releasing stuff, I would have flat out said:
Old Kingdom Lowlands
Old Kingdom Mountains
Yin Sloth 2E
Island 2E
Land of the South Winds
Phi/Lopan
Floenry Isles (a full book for them)
After all of those,
Monsters & Animals, updated
Weapons, Armor & Castles 2E
GM Shield 2E
And somewhere in all that mix... Tombs of Gersidi 2E
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Janus
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Post by Janus on Jan 9, 2014 3:49:03 GMT
You asked what the one thing I would change was and that is the most important one I can think of.
Historically I think I never liked the troglodyte. If they had been excluded in 2nd ed I would have been with that.
I would also liked humans to have something more going for them. I hate to mention anything d20, but like extra skills, etc.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 9, 2014 4:44:55 GMT
Actually, I believe I said... I'm not talking about new books, or "clarifications", or adding new things in. I mean if you could change one thing about the ESTABLISHED world, what would it be? But, not going to quibble.  I can definitely agree about the Trogs. Pretty much the most useless and pointless race in the game. I can see them as a M&A creature, but as a main book "player race"? The description of them points to every reason they're NOT really a player race. And yeah, I'd like something for humans. There's the age old question "If every race is superior to humans in some way, how is it humans are the dominant race?". The answer seems to be that humans just breed like crazy. |
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Post by damianmagecraft on Jan 9, 2014 6:49:27 GMT
Actually, I believe I said... I'm not talking about new books, or "clarifications", or adding new things in. I mean if you could change one thing about the ESTABLISHED world, what would it be? But, not going to quibble. I can definitely agree about the Trogs. Pretty much the most useless and pointless race in the game. I can see them as a M&A creature, but as a main book "player race"? The description of them points to every reason they're NOT really a player race. And yeah, I'd like something for humans. There's the age old question "If every race is superior to humans in some way, how is it humans are the dominant race?". The answer seems to be that humans just breed like crazy. except Wolfen gestate faster, drop in litters and mature faster. so thats not accurate. |
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 9, 2014 7:12:37 GMT
Yeah, but, when you factor in the "softer" living conditions, the long use of magic and mass religious crowd, humans "most likely" have a much lower infant mortality rate. Add on top of that the larger numbers to start with, and more humans breed faster.
Given enough time, the wolfen could overtake this... however, I'm sure the ET/Wolfen war will break out before that happens, and hurt the wolfen numbers enough that the humans will still be outbreeding
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Janus
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Post by Janus on Jan 9, 2014 18:41:49 GMT
I think one thing I maight like to see is a different setup? Page layout... whichever they are called to kind of make them easier to go through. The races, equipment at the back is annoying.
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Post by Prysus on Jan 15, 2014 1:55:02 GMT
Greetings and Salutations. I'm not sure I could pin down any one thing I'd like to change, and most of what I'd probably want altered I'm going to attempt to do officially (if I can ever get back to work on my various projects), no promises of course. Anyways, why I am posting is to offer a few ideas on something that's already been mentioned: Humans.
1. For human breeding, I actually figured Wolfen did breed faster, and if a war erupted between over the Disputed Lands, it would be the Wolfen Empire's numbers and unity (which is threatened by the Coyle inclusion) as their strength with the strength of the Eastern Territory being magic and their allies (such as Elves and Dwarves). But I'll admit I've never really researched the subject, and that's really getting more into a Wolfen War debate which I have no interest in starting. Moving on ...
2. Something I toyed with when I first started running was that humans could breed with anything. Any half-races would be half-human. The reason that Elves and Dwarves both consider them allies (and follow them) is because they viewed the human compatability as a type of ... not sure the word to describe it. They're the cream center of an Oreo cookie that keeps everything together, and if humans were gone the two sides would just bash against each other until everything was left in crumbs. However, over time, I decided I didn't want to do the work on half-breeds and that the concept didn't fit well into the setting as established, so I nixed the whole idea.
3. I think an interesting advantage to humans is hinted at in the main book, but never really fleshed out. So instead of just adding in more skills or something like that, try this idea out instead ...
The advantage to humans are that they can pick up any weapon and use it. So if we use that mentality, we can come up with a couple of possible rule additions to represent that: 3a: Races are limited to using only "Favorite Weapons" listed under the racial write-up (remove "any" from other races that list it, and then have a series of favorite weapons anyways; unless you feel it fitting to match them to humans). Any weapon not listed in their "Favorite Weapons" suffer a -2 penalty to strike/parry. This can create the illusion of things like Elves being master bowman, even if a human (or any other race with "long bow" as a Favorite Weapon) can be as proficient. Note: The -2 penalty is an arbitrary number I came up with as I typed this out. Feel free to change it to any number you see fit. 3b: Even though races have "Favorite Weapons," they're by no means limited to those. However, members of other races must still be trained in a weapons usage. So if a Dwarf selects "W.P. Trident" he can use Tridents no problem, but if he does NOT select W.P. Battle Axe then he can't use an axe without penalty. Meanwhile humans retain the advantage of being able to pick up any weapon and use it without penalty, skilled or not. Note: In this variation, "Favorite Weapons" are just suggestions for the most likely type of W.P. training the race (NPC in particular) are likely to have, but by no means a restriction. These are just some ideas I came up with off the top of my head today. Feel free to use them, tweak them, or ignore them as you see fit. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all. |
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Post by Adam of The Old Kingdom on Jan 15, 2014 3:00:20 GMT
I was fine with the human breeding thing. except for some typos with the half orc, I just went along with them being species and not races that could inter breed.
Weapon use is a strange property to attribute to a creature.
the wolfen empire seems to have learnt the human lesson of organisation to expand it's holdngs. so I see this as the key to the current mix of peoples in PF. Humans have reached that critical mass where there is enough of them to start infighting.
As to human specialness, I would lean towards a more universal bonus. something all humans can use no matter the Class. like a d6 on a chosen attribute. to be given after the usual GM customisations (such as 3d6 reroll 1s). or a +2 on any one thing damage, strike roll, spell strength, etc. or bonus exp for fast learning (the brightest flame burns quickest)
Ultimately, any given rule tweak relies on the setting the GM frames the adventure in.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 15, 2014 5:21:14 GMT
I typically allow humans to rolls their stats, and place where ever they like.
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Post by ninjabunny on Jan 15, 2014 5:59:08 GMT
I typically allow humans to rolls their stats, and place where ever they like. i have a rule sorta like that. (I have it posted in my rules) |
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Post by Prysus on Jan 15, 2014 6:07:41 GMT
Greetings and Salutations. To some degree I agree, but by the same token most people will accept Elves being naturally proficient with a Long Bow as part of their racial abilities (this is even seen in Rifts Conversion Book One). Dwarves can naturally design better weapons than any other race as a result of being natural blacksmiths. People tend to accept these better because they're cliche stereotypes.
All I'm suggesting is that humans are proficient at war, and as such proficient in the tools of war. Any race can be trained to effectively use weapons to kill, but give any item to a human and they'll find a way to kill with it. If you're still having trouble picturing it, I suggest looking at the A Call to Arms series by Alan Dean Foster. This is a sci-fi series and I admit to only having read the first in the series, but it goes into the concept (humans as natural warriors) to some degree.
Now, don't get me wrong, people are welcome to not like the idea, but the only real "strange" thing about it is that it's yet to become a stereotype of the genre. Humans and Wolfen are the only two races (that I can recall) that the book discusses rising up from barbarism. Dragons, Titans, Elves, and Changelings have no such mention (and references to the Age of Chaos where there's little documentation). No mention of it for Dwarves, Kobolds, or Gnomes. They make strides in civilization, but not rising up from barbarism. I can totally see this barbarian side still within humans that makes it natural to just pick up any weapon and kill with it. This is not something a naturally civilized culture will do, because it's not civilized.
*Shrugs.* That's just my view. Anyways, I need to get to bed because I have work tomorrow. Farewell and safe journeys to all.
P.S. Hmm ... if I could undo one thing from "Official" PF material? Rifter #50, Zodiac Mages! Mind you, I only read up to the second paragraph where it mentions all Elves are naturally affinity with nature (or something like that) ... shut the book and have never been able to read it again. I will not accept the tired stereotype of all Elves being tree-loving hippies. Just no!
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Post by joshuagoliath on Jan 15, 2014 6:24:42 GMT
P.S. Hmm ... if I could undo one thing from "Official" PF material? Rifter #50, Zodiac Mages! Mind you, I only read up to the second paragraph where it mentions all Elves are naturally affinity with nature (or something like that) ... shut the book and have never been able to read it again. I will not accept the tired stereotype of all Elves being tree-loving hippies. Just no!
Oh come on! We can naturally expand that to elven enclaves having pot farms!! Humans might grow SOME, but they wouldn't be able to offer the wide variety of types of weed offered by the elves! |
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Post by Adam of The Old Kingdom on Jan 15, 2014 11:13:28 GMT
Greetings and Salutations. To some degree I agree, but by the same token most people will accept Elves being naturally proficient with a Long Bow as part of their racial abilities (this is even seen in Rifts Conversion Book One). Dwarves can naturally design better weapons than any other race as a result of being natural blacksmiths. People tend to accept these better because they're cliche stereotypes.
All I'm suggesting is that humans are proficient at war, and as such proficient in the tools of war. Any race can be trained to effectively use weapons to kill, but give any item to a human and they'll find a way to kill with it. If you're still having trouble picturing it, I suggest looking at the A Call to Arms series by Alan Dean Foster. This is a sci-fi series and I admit to only having read the first in the series, but it goes into the concept (humans as natural warriors) to some degree.
Now, don't get me wrong, people are welcome to not like the idea, but the only real "strange" thing about it is that it's yet to become a stereotype of the genre. Humans and Wolfen are the only two races (that I can recall) that the book discusses rising up from barbarism. Dragons, Titans, Elves, and Changelings have no such mention (and references to the Age of Chaos where there's little documentation). No mention of it for Dwarves, Kobolds, or Gnomes. They make strides in civilization, but not rising up from barbarism. I can totally see this barbarian side still within humans that makes it natural to just pick up any weapon and kill with it. This is not something a naturally civilized culture will do, because it's not civilized.
*Shrugs.* That's just my view. Anyways, I need to get to bed because I have work tomorrow. Farewell and safe journeys to all.
P.S. Hmm ... if I could undo one thing from "Official" PF material? Rifter #50, Zodiac Mages! Mind you, I only read up to the second paragraph where it mentions all Elves are naturally affinity with nature (or something like that) ... shut the book and have never been able to read it again. I will not accept the tired stereotype of all Elves being tree-loving hippies. Just no!
But, the brain is mankinds greatest weapon. to use tools as you have said but also to use magic, and psionics and commerce and organisation, thats my point. I think you limit the scope of "weapons" humans can use to just sticks and sharp metal. --------------------------- I almost vomited in the conversion book when I ready the elves and bow thing. KS avoided tolkein like shit like that and then suddenly interdimentional elves pick it up. considering the 1st real fleshing out of elves is as aristocrats and elites in Timiro. The histories of the elves and dwarves goes back beyond most but the tristine chronicles. 10 thousand years? they watched humans rise out of barbarism at the same time as they were reminded of how barbaric they could be. |
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Post by juce734 on Apr 6, 2014 3:59:06 GMT
If I could change one thing it would be that the setting had the full planet and the current setting was just one continent. So while I would keep the black wall I would make it possible to leave but not to ever re-enter it.
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