Anyone hate the PPE and Magic influences?

[writersblock]

Personally, I was hoping for a more traditional "zombie movie" type game. The Cult, Priests, PPE sensing, and all that actually detracts from it IMHO.

Honestly, I could live with the PPE sensing (in effect they "sense life") if that was NOT also what they feed on. Basically, they made zombies into undead Psi-Stalkers.

Yet another Rifts product brought to you by Pally, but this time, in disguise. Just wait till the next suppliment where KLS facilities open up robots and energy weapons...

I think the magic (especially since only evil NPCs get it) detracts further from the classic horror genre this could have embodied.

Your thoughts?

[Jaymz]

I think the reason the included PPE etc is so DR wasn't JUST another Zombie game. Was it the right thing? Hard to say. Personally I would have liked to seen the original incarnation written by the Joshuas. According to Mr Hilden, the material they wrote remaining in the core book, the supplements thus far and the Rifters is only about 25% of what they originally wrote.

[Sci-Fi]

I think, that the PPE and Magical influences are direct hold over from the original, that were not removed when Kevin made the book more generalized. To me, the way it's in there seems very much clear, that's what it is. The PPE and Magical sensing (The glow)and such are just so out of wack with the rest.

Personally, I prefer the more generalized Zombie stuff. With -out- magic.

That being said I think that the Joshua's were screwed, the way Kevin went about the changes.

The game can be fun, but you have to change some stuff to bring it into what most people would think of general Zombie type games.

[Lupala]

I really don't like the fact that only the bad guys have magic....I mean, really? How fair is that? And some of the skills are(as usual) not very well thought out.....skateboarding? Do you know much noise they make? And how little debris is needed to stop them? And some of the classes are really weak....I mean REALLY weak.....sound nifty in the basic description - but wait - you can't actually do that according to the rules....(see packmaster, or whatever it was called.) Reminded me of some of the system failure classes.....(Never play the jury rig class)

[joshuagoliath]

I think that the way it works for anything other than Rifts is that "it needs a touch of Rifts, because that's what pays the bills"

[Sci-Fi]

Nov 30, 2013 4:19:46 GMT Lupala said:

I really don't like the fact that only the bad guys have magic....I mean, really? How fair is that? And some of the skills are(as usual) not very well thought out.....skateboarding? Do you know much noise they make? And how little debris is needed to stop them? And some of the classes are really weak....I mean REALLY weak.....sound nifty in the basic description - but wait - you can't actually do that according to the rules....(see packmaster, or whatever it was called.) Reminded me of some of the system failure classes.....(Never play the jury rig class)

Well part of the thing with most Zombie genre games is that you're generally -not- the super hero fighting off zombies and kicking over buildings. It's that you're... the fry cook, or the garbage man, or the nurse, or the convenience store guy. Sure some people are going to pick cops and army guys. Still, the game is set in the 'this happened to normal people' type thing.

As for the bad guys having magic. I just don't use those in our games. Trust me. The dead and the living are scary enough with out having to give them magic.

[Jaymz]

I see the big bad guys using magic to have created the zombies as really no different than the big bad guys being a corporation and having done so (ala Resident Evil). The only issue I have seen in DR is that while you are just some random human (possibly military but just as likely not) it is actually a bit TOO difficult to take down a single zombie.

[writersblock]

Yeah, I have no problem in theory with the way they did the character classes, but the reality is that if you are playing an RPG to one extent or another you are playing the "hero character in the movie". The way they did the OCCs, let alone the way they did the zombies, makes it tough to be the hero...let alone a survivor.

I mean, look at it from the perspective of having survived long enough to GET to first level; how exactly did you do that now?

That, and I HATE the PPE seeking/feeding thing.

[Josh Hilden]

I knew magic/psionics/supernatural elements wouldn't be universally popular but it was MY vision of the game. Unfortunately when Kevin Nerfed almost all of my setting specific information and made his changes to what he left ... it just didn't work anymore. He killed the level of balance I'd worked to achieve.

[Sci-Fi]

Nov 30, 2013 18:22:44 GMT Josh Hilden said:

I knew magic/psionics/supernatural elements wouldn't be universally popular but it was MY vision of the game. Unfortunately when Kevin Nerfed almost all of my setting specific information and made his changes to what he left ... it just didn't work anymore. He killed the level of balance I'd worked to achieve.

And that's exactly it. In the original setting (I'm assuming) it was balanced out and made more sense in a global perspective. When you looked at it as a whole it made sense.

When it was changed radically, what was left (The aspects that we've mentioned above) Stand out really bad as they don't mesh with the rest of the setting.

I also agree as presented the zombies are way way too hard to kill. With out modification the game doesn't work. There's surely no one shot kills like you see 500 times in a row in zombie movies or graphic novels, which is what people expect.

[Josh Hilden]

I like to think my novels give at least a bit of the flavor I was going for.

*NOTE: If anyone who reports back to the powers that be read this ... THE SHORES OF THE DEAD DOES NOT BREAK MY CONTRACT WITH PALLADIUM BECAUSE THE STORY IS DIFFERENT AND ZOMBIES ARE MORE OR LESS PUBLIC DOMAIN!

I actually need to say that, I've received a few emails and messages in the last year. But it's all good.

[damianmagecraft]

Nov 30, 2013 19:02:42 GMT Josh Hilden said:

I like to think my novels give at least a bit of the flavor I was going for.

*NOTE: If anyone who reports back to the powers that be read this ... THE SHORES OF THE DEAD DOES NOT BREAK MY CONTRACT WITH PALLADIUM BECAUSE THE STORY IS DIFFERENT AND ZOMBIES ARE MORE OR LESS PUBLIC DOMAIN!

I actually need to say that, I've received a few emails and messages in the last year. But it's all good.

off topic, I know, but i gotta ask...
Seriously? this is a problem Josh?
ok... even I have to say thats way over the line of common sense even for me as a DotF.

[Josh Hilden]

I have three very nasty emails saved (Not from Palladium Staff of Freelance Employee past or present) accusing me of circumventing my contract and including Dead Reign material in the books. Just covering my bases.

[Sci-Fi]

Ok, Now I gotta ask, who's sending the nasty emails??

[colonel wolfe]

Nov 30, 2013 20:15:15 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Ok, Now I gotta ask, who's sending the nasty emails??

super-fans.... you know its the sue-happy super-fan... i mean fans...

[Josh Hilden]

I will give no names or indications but I will say the Colonel is more or less correct.

[NMI]

Dec 1, 2013 15:01:03 GMT Josh Hilden said:

I will give no names or indications but I will say the Colonel is more or less correct.

I can say it wasn't me. Heck, I haven't even read your novels. No offense.

[hellside503oso]

Being a big Deadworld fan I like their being mystical elements in DR Zombie goodness.

[Josh Hilden]

Like I said nobody who works for Palladium in any form past or present as far as I know.

[Jaymz]

Well whoever it was......they're dicks for doing it

[calto40k]

Why do I get the feeling I might know who the aforementioned fans are...

[yilbber]

As for dead reign, i think it was a sloppy addition, meant to be sneaked into a game of Bts 2nd edition
I Think the current zombies are impossible to kill, do not fit the genre, and the only way to survive it is to be superheroic in character. They really messed up on this one, even worse then systems failure. At least in SF, you had some tech on your side to even the odds, This one pretends to be balanced but it not, and the opposition is never ending. I would ignore the whole weakpoitns and Armor rating system, and the whole zombie regeneration, it doesn't make sense, it ruins the feel of the game, This is why i think the game is mostly dead in the water Book 1 and 2 really cemented this fate, but book 3 sorta turned it back to the scavenger hunt.

[ninjabunny]

I hate Kevin's garbage zombie game.

[Janus]

I have finally gotten around to really reading the book. I like a lot of the concepts, but there are the finer details I dislike and probably would change if I ran a game. First off I would get rid of the magic classes. I have no issue with the idea that evil people have learned to sort of domesticate the zombies, but by magic??? Not so much. I have no issue with PPE being the "foodstuff" of zombies, it is just a sensible as "being dead hurts" and "brains take the pain away" from Night of the living Dead 2. I figure the zombies can still eat the person, but the real food is the energy. I am not a fan of the natural AR14 or no damage. I realize these guys feel no pain, but bits and pieces are still being blown off (think Walking Dead where Merle shoots out the legs just so he can walk up and deliver a coup de grace). I think I would have that be does normal damage anything over 14 critical damage to the area. The Head shots I would make easier to kill. I am sure there are other items I would need to change, but for right now if I were to run an adventure I would remove the magic users, the Nat AR no damage rule, the so much needs to be removed from head to kill them, and definitely get rid of the whole the dead regenerate... once head is gone that zombie is dead.

Otherwise, I like it. Good concept. Good background (though Brad Ashley's ramblings get redundant, but that is sort of the point). I like the character classes (except Half-Dead, I have a feeling they are so much target practice it aint funny).

[Sci-Fi]

What'd you think of "The Glow"?

[Josh Hilden]

The "Glow" was my idea (like PPE feeding) which he quickly spun out of reason (like PPE feeding).

[Sci-Fi]

Can you tell us how it was originally intended? As you mention it seems to have gotten spun a bit out of reason.

[Janus]

Jan 8, 2014 23:22:27 GMT Sci-Fi said:

What'd you think of "The Glow"?

The glow being the light we emit?  If that is what you are referring to I had no problem with that.  It made sense in a way.  I have known people who say they can see auras around a person so I guess its possible that the undead could also see it as a survival ability.

[writersblock]

Personally, and I don't have the Rifters much of the original material was in, but I would have liked it WAY better had the multiple possible reasons for the rising mentioned in the beginning held true rather than the clear use of Brulux or whatever it was called.

I prefer the Zombie games that don't get into the cause.

I also hate how Pally changes its own rules with stuff like the combat system. Suddenly, a Called Shot to the head is too easy so give the dead a higher AR of 14? So, the zombification makes their bones more durable and such too? Really?

I hate the PPE sense because basically, the skills that might make a survivor survive (wits, stealth, etc) are boiled away to leave dumb luck because no matter how quiet etc you are if they randomly get close (even out of eye shot and such) they magically sense you....stupid. I see no reason anyone survived the initial days except luck and mobility.

Honestly, DR was the first thing Pally had done in ages I was looking forward to. Lucky for me, a member of our gaming group picked up all the books before I had the money to get them. I liked some parts, and some of the ideas, but overall it tanked. Really broke my heart since I am a zombies fan.

[Janus]

Jan 14, 2014 12:34:55 GMT writersblock said:

Personally, and I don't have the Rifters much of the original material was in, but I would have liked it WAY better had the multiple possible reasons for the rising mentioned in the beginning held true rather than the clear use of Brulux or whatever it was called.

I prefer the Zombie games that don't get into the cause.

I also hate how Pally changes its own rules with stuff like the combat system. Suddenly, a Called Shot to the head is too easy so give the dead a higher AR of 14? So, the zombification makes their bones more durable and such too? Really?

I hate the PPE sense because basically, the skills that might make a survivor survive (wits, stealth, etc) are boiled away to leave dumb luck because no matter how quiet etc you are if they randomly get close (even out of eye shot and such) they magically sense you....stupid. I see no reason anyone survived the initial days except luck and mobility.

Honestly, DR was the first thing Pally had done in ages I was looking forward to. Lucky for me, a member of our gaming group picked up all the books before I had the money to get them. I liked some parts, and some of the ideas, but overall it tanked. Really broke my heart since I am a zombies fan.

See that PPE sense thing threw me too because I thought earlier in the book it was like get under cover so that no part of you is visible so they CANNOT see you.  Then I got to the part about sensing you in a building up to like what 2-3 stories up?  A small house and they know you are there?  I was a little confused by that.  Maybe I misread something.  

I did hate how they moan and you get the chance to hit it 2 and kill it or else you are hosed.  I decided at that point to make them easier to kill.  A head shoot of a foe that does not care is not a +3 to hit and rot weakens the body instead of strengthening it so like AR 10 (either hit or miss) and then there is no mulitple to how much SDC to destroy the neck/head/brain.  Just what is listed.  Just a couple of changes I would make.