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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 3, 2013 7:27:41 GMT
Indeed, up to and including the invasion of the galaxy by a race that's 'outside' the force, and due to that, getting all the way to Courscant and terraforming it (and everything else along the way of their invasion path) Before the Jedi finally end the threat (They had help, including the Imperial Remnant. RIP Chewie.).
That's kinda my point. Not that you 'cannot ever play with out the force or a force user' but that the Force is such a major part of the setting, that if you take it away, it turns into generic sci fi game, and you lose a linchpin of the Star Wars universe.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 3, 2013 11:11:33 GMT
Actually.......well I'll get back to this when I can get on a computer to rebut.  |
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Post by hellside503oso on Dec 3, 2013 20:31:44 GMT
I love Star Wars ..all eras but I prefer Old Republic & newer Legacy eras (Mainly from the comics) . Any SW game that limits the Force just doesn't do it for me personally. Does that mean I won't play the newest SW RPG or the older WEG D6 version? No. I just never had played them & would prefer to play a SW RPG that has force users or in an era where it is possible. My favorite SW novels are post Ep.4-6 , such as the I,Jedi, Jedi Academy books ect. I do like the Ep. 1-3 movies too (but, prefer the animated Clone Wars TV series to them), unlike some SW fans. So playing a pre-Empire/Rebellion era game would appeal to me.
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 3, 2013 23:21:41 GMT
The third book force and destiny will take place after the fall of the emperor an Vader and is going to be prodementaly about force weilders the new Jedi order and Seth (not to sure on the Seth)
The second book is going to deal with the civil war and well expand on force powers. The way I looks the books force powers will evolve like Lukes did.
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 3, 2013 23:22:47 GMT
Fantasy fight had also mentioned they may you around with old republic source metiral.
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Post by joshuagoliath on Dec 4, 2013 0:06:33 GMT
I think to be complete ee NEED the kind of powers used by Dark side in order to know what the Jedi have to combat against, and what leads them astray
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 4, 2013 0:25:34 GMT
I think to be complete ee NEED the kind of powers used by Dark side in order to know what the Jedi have to combat against, and what leads them astray I assume force and destiny will have dark side and sith I just don't know how much an I think age of rebellion will expand on it more . Edge had force powers and abilities. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 4, 2013 3:40:58 GMT
I am too tired to get into whether the force is needed for the fell of star wars. I'll try to do so tomorrow some time. Suffice to say for now that there are several story lines in the comics and novels that didn't need the force but still had the star wars feel to it.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160 
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 4, 2013 5:13:22 GMT
without the Force... Starwas is a Lame Rip off of Startrek... adding the force if felt like a rip off of LOTR + Trek + Dune... (watches the world begin to burn), oh forgot the incest too... GL is a sicko.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 4, 2013 10:52:17 GMT
Ehh.. is one kiss really incest? Especially if ignorant?
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 4, 2013 11:58:13 GMT
Hey now if anything SW is a rip off of Flash Gordon not trek.
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 4, 2013 18:27:46 GMT
Hey now if anything SW is a rip off of Flash Gordon not trek. actually it is... GL went to make flash Gorden and got turned down he had the same basic plot and opening as episode four or as it was originally called Star Wars. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 4, 2013 18:40:15 GMT
Yep he talks about FG being his inspiration from when he was a kid repeatedly.
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 4, 2013 19:59:35 GMT
Also, doesn't GL only count the movies, force unleashed one and clone wars as official Star Wars canon?
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 4, 2013 20:10:14 GMT
The answer is not a 'yes' or 'no' sort of thing. In Star Wars there are 'varying levels/stages of canon'. The movies are the Top. Then it gets into differing levels of the EU (Expanded Universe). Technically untill last year, all the products had go go through Lucas' various companies and be signed off on, before they were produced legally. That being said, the novels for example were concidered higher level of Canon than the comics. There's even different scales. "G" Canon "T" Canon "C" "S" "N" and "D" It's .. very complex when it comes to Star Wars Canon. This might help (But likely will just confuse the issue more) starwars.wikia.com/wiki/CanonThe Holocron's database includes an area for a single-letter (G, T, C, S, N or D) representing the level of canonicity of that element; these letters have since informally been applied to the levels of canon themselves: G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, N-canon and D-canon. As part of his work with the Holocron, Chee was responsible for the creation of this classification, and he spent the early stages developing and refining them into what they are today. G, T, C and S together form the overall Star Wars continuity. Each ascending level typically overrides the lower ones; for example, Boba Fett's back story was radically altered with the release of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, forcing the retcon of older source material to fall in line with the new G-canon back story. However, this is not always absolute, and the resolution of all contradictions is handled on a case-by-case basis. G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).[1] T-canon,[2] or Television Canon[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.[4][5] It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee[6]. C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be;[7] they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports. S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon. N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon. D is Detours Canon, used for material hailing from Star Wars Detours.[8] |
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 4, 2013 20:23:43 GMT
I know about the levels of canon Sci-Fi, I am a fan and I do think you for this in depth well thought out post that will be of use for many I hope. (Honestly do think tht was kind of you) but my statement was more that GL himself only counted those items as canon not that they were those items were the only canon. Hope that cleared up what I meant.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 4, 2013 20:31:15 GMT
To be honest, I don't think GL puts all that much thought into it. Someone once asked if he worried about things in 1,2,and 3, contradicting with previously established Canon. His reply was to the tune of "I make the films. They're the top Canon, everything else falls some where else down the chain"
Now that Disney owns it, it's not his to 'say' any more.
The franchise really out grew one man almost instantly. I'm not saying Disney will do it better, but there's just soooo much to it, that it's bigger than one man. It's got it's own culture and such.
To directly answer, the only thing I've seen him attribute to being hard canon where the films. Not force unleashed or anything else. That's not saying he didn't. I just haven't seen it. The Flannel one bounces around a lot.
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Post by ninjabunny on Dec 4, 2013 20:34:48 GMT
I so hope Disney at least treats the fans better, GL has never been very kind to the Star Wars fans.
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jorel
New Member
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Post by jorel on Dec 8, 2013 19:08:15 GMT
In the movies there is plenty more fresh material of interest than merely "The Force" I'm sure the same can be said for the other mediums.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 19:42:36 GMT
There's tons of material other than The Force. The point is not that it's 'everything'. The point is that if you take it out, most events in SW just don't happen, and that The Force is what makes Star Wars, Star Wars. It's a defining characteristic.
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 19:43:51 GMT
Correct it is A defining characteristic not THE defining characteristic.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 8, 2013 19:52:49 GMT
The defining characteristic of star wars is George Lucas will change the story every few years... when Han murdered gredo in cold blood... you knew he was no James t Kirk. ..
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 19:56:10 GMT
SHUT UP! HAN SHOT FIRST THERE IS NO OTHER WAY!!!
Ahem sorry about that.....
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 19:56:27 GMT
Correct it is A defining characteristic not THE defining characteristic. Can you name something that is more of a defining characteristic that.. well. "Defines" Star Wars, other than the Force? Something that sets it apart from other Sci-fi? |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 19:58:54 GMT
How about the story itself? The story is essentially the same good vs evil story we see in fantasy and any other medium. The Force along with the Technology seen along with the seedy characters and not so seedy characters...you need it ALL for Star Wars to work not any one thing.
Star Wars is about the journey. What is used in getting through the journey is all window dressing.
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Post by Sci-Fi on Dec 8, 2013 20:04:50 GMT
How about the story itself? The story is essentially the same good vs evil story we see in fantasy and any other medium. The Force along with the Technology seen along with the seedy characters and not so seedy characters...you need it ALL for Star Wars to work not any one thing. Star Wars is about the journey. What is used in getting through the journey is all window dressing. It's not though. "The Heroes Journey" Is, as you said, found everywhere. I did a paper on Star Wars and Campbells' heroe's journey in college. While the story is good (it's why you see it used over and over and over) it's not what makes Star Wars, Star Wars, else every Heroe's Journey is Star Wars. It's a fun story, but that isn't something that makes SW different from ST, or BSG, or Farscape, or Firefly. What makes Star Wars different from all these other sci-fi? The Force. Others have aliens. Others have galatic governments, good and bad. Others have ships with scoundrels captaining them with hearts of gold. What sets SW apart? The Force/Jedi. |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 20:08:19 GMT
Having the Force is no different than having "the chosen one" (the matrix) or "the Heroic Knight" (say King Arthur in Camelot) or insert any primary hero that is not the same as the others in his party. The force is not all that unique. Mysticism as part of the story is nothing new or unique to Star Wars. You still need all the other elements for the whole thing to work as it does.
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 8, 2013 20:15:42 GMT
SHUT UP! HAN SHOT FIRST THERE IS NO OTHER WAY!!! Ahem sorry about that..... Han did shoot first.. hence my referral to the shooting as murder...  |
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Post by Jaymz on Dec 8, 2013 20:17:12 GMT
LOL touche
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colonel wolfe
Junior Member
"I haven't done any research "-Steve Yune
Posts: 160
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Post by colonel wolfe on Dec 8, 2013 20:17:59 GMT
Ah the heroes journey... yeah its an old model. Starwars did a great version of it... read the dragon rider series eragon... it's like starwars mated with Gandalf. ...
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