What I think

[ninjabunny]

I honestly love te feel of this game. The mechanics work amazingly well and give you the feel of the original movies.

[Jaymz]

A friend just gave me a PDF of it. Going to be a while before I am able to read through it well enough.

[Sci-Fi]

I've got it. Looks nice. I'll admit I've not fully read through it, and the mechanics look.. interesting. Mini-maxers are not going to love it.

When they put out the Force book it'll likely tie together well. As one that likes playing a Force User, the core book leaves me a touch left out.

[ninjabunny]

Dec 2, 2013 1:14:40 GMT Sci-Fi said:

I've got it. Looks nice. I'll admit I've not fully read through it, and the mechanics look.. interesting. Mini-maxers are not going to love it.

When they put out the Force book it'll likely tie together well. As one that likes playing a Force User, the core book leaves me a touch left out.

i am glad they down played the force in this book. One thing I hated about saga edition was a bunch of Jedi running aroun during the galactic empiral age when the Jedi are all but wiped out.

[colonel wolfe]

The galaxy is a big big place... I'm sure you could find a few force users or even Jedi who survived.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 1:18:51 GMT ninjabunny said:

Dec 2, 2013 1:14:40 GMT Sci-Fi said:

I've got it. Looks nice. I'll admit I've not fully read through it, and the mechanics look.. interesting. Mini-maxers are not going to love it.

When they put out the Force book it'll likely tie together well. As one that likes playing a Force User, the core book leaves me a touch left out.

i am glad they down played the force in this book. One thing I hated about saga edition was a bunch of Jedi running aroun during the galactic empiral age when the Jedi are all but wiped out.

Thing is, I have no want, or wish to play during the "Movie" Era. If nothing else, you almost have to be non force using, and not really doing anything big. Han and Luke and Leia etc are doing the big stuff. It sort of regulates you to slightly better than peon status with out many if any force users or Jedi. (Not that every game has to be galaxy shaking.)

Just before or just after and you can play a force user, which for me, is what elevates Star Wars out of Generic Sci Fi.

now.. not everyone has to be a Force User. In fact few should be. Still the option is appreciated.

With out the Jedi and the Force.. well, I can play Star Trek or Rifts, or Robotech, or Serenity.

You 'can' do Jedi during the Empire era. It just comes off a bit contrived.

[ninjabunny]

Again I like the empiral age more then any other, for me the force has never been much of an appeal. The force weilders are so rare and far and few between, the force weilders become more seclusive. They are forced to use their powers more mindfully.
I must disagree about the movie timeline, this by far is they best time to set the game. Everyone has seen the movies not everyone has read the books and extended timelines. I don't really care that Luke Han and chewy are off fighting against the empire or that they will take down the emperor or Vader, some adventures can shake the galaxy more then the movies did.
As for the force seperating Star Wars from other sci-fi settings. I once again must disagree, the force is only one part of a greater picture an for me the force is a small part of that picture.
I am sure more people will be happy when force and destiny comes out because they can have more force powers and stronger force weilders. With the way the books will be set up I think it gives players a stronger chance to play more degrees of force weilders.

[Jaymz]

I don;t think the uncommonality of force users in the old d6 game was a detriment at all. WEG did such a great job of filling out the setting and making it very much lived in....and let us not forget, while Luke was central to the original trilogy it was by and large his non force actions that made more difference per se than anything else. Not to mention the actiosn of those that were not Jedi like Han., the ewoks, etc.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 3:37:16 GMT Jaymz said:

I don;t think the uncommonality of force users in the old d6 game was a detriment at all. WEG did such a great job of filling out the setting and making it very much lived in....and let us not forget, while Luke was central to the original trilogy it was by and large his non force actions that made more difference per se than anything else. Not to mention the actiosn of those that were not Jedi like Han., the ewoks, etc.

Not really, no. With out the force the first Death Star is still around. With out the Force, Luke can't call and get picked up, under Cloud City. With out the force Luke would have lasted about 10 seconds in the final battle.

With out the Force, Luke is kinda just an incestuous hick. lol

[Jaymz]

It's not JUST his actions that save the galaxy though. The force didn't cause the ewoks to be the turning point intone battle of Endor. The force didn't cause lando to have a change of heart. The force didn't make Han Solo turn around and show up in time to save likes ass from vader in the death star trench.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 3:33:15 GMT ninjabunny said:

Again I like the empiral age more then any other, for me the force has never been much of an appeal. The force weilders are so rare and far and few between, the force weilders become more seclusive. They are forced to use their powers more mindfully.
I must disagree about the movie timeline, this by far is they best time to set the game. Everyone has seen the movies not everyone has read the books and extended timelines. I don't really care that Luke Han and chewy are off fighting against the empire or that they will take down the emperor or Vader, some adventures can shake the galaxy more then the movies did.
As for the force seperating Star Wars from other sci-fi settings. I once again must disagree, the force is only one part of a greater picture an for me the force is a small part of that picture.
I am sure more people will be happy when force and destiny comes out because they can have more force powers and stronger force weilders. With the way the books will be set up I think it gives players a stronger chance to play more degrees of force weilders.

Force users are few and far between, but we're always playing the few and far between. We're playing the heroes in a universe of billions. Heroes tend to gather and team up to do the great things.
Nothing wrong with having to be careful about using the Force, but it is the Force and the Jedi that take Star Wars out of "Generic Sci Fi" and into Star Wars.

As for the Movie timeline. yeah people have watched the movies, but who, sitting down to play an RPG set in Star Wars universe hasn't read some of the EU, be it books, comics, games, etc.?

During the movie time, the big events are already laid out. More over those affecting them are laid out. You can still be heroes and save people and do stuff in the background, but as the events are already plotted, you're not going to be the ones saving the galaxy in them. you're not going to suddenly pop up and lock Luke in a closet and make the run down the trench of the Death star. You're not going to be the one dueling Vader in front of the Emperor's throne. At most you're regulated to "unsung and unknown' Heroes. Now those heroes might be awesome on Planet X3454 out on the rim, and you might save them from some little known Empire plot, but you're not the big heroes. Those slots are taken. History is 'known'.

Not every game has to be big huge heroes or movers and shakers, but the point is, in that era, you can't be. If anything, the fact that everyone has seen the movies, and knows them, locks you out of those events.

You say "Some adventures can shake the galaxy more than the movies did" Then how come no one knows about them? How come the movies don't mention them and they mean nothing to the time line that everyone 'knows'?

At most you might 'secretly' do stuff that never comes to light nor 'matters' in the grand scheme of things, as the grand scheme of things is already known and plotted out, for 30 years.

The Force DOES Separate Star Wars from other Sci Fi.  With out it, there's still games to be had, but what sets it apart from other Sci-Fi worlds is lost. The Force and the Jedi are what defines Star Wars "As" Star Wars.
If you look at it. Han and Chewie with out any interaction with the Force or Jedi.... are Mal and his crew on Serenity. Or any number of other general casts on space ships. I mean stack Mal and Han beside each other. Look at their histories and their POS ships, look at the quirky people around them etc...

Is the Force just one part of a greater picture? yes. Is it a pivotal part of the greater picture? Yes. "
Can you have games with mercs, or bounty hunters or military groups, or rogues in the Star Wars universe, with out ever touching the Force? Yes. You can. But that's not why people show up. Sort of like going to a high priced award winning steak house. You don't go to the trouble and the expense, then order chicken you can get at any restaurant in town.

[ninjabunny]

My wife has never seen or read anything outside of episodes 4,5,&6 . I have only read fix and fan fix set in the galactic empire age. I have only played games set in and around that time. The major events of the movie are not "the" major events. Those events are major to the movies but only part of what is going on in the galaxy at that time.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 4:14:45 GMT ninjabunny said:

My wife has never seen or read anything outside of episodes 4,5,&6 . I have only read fix and fan fix set in the galactic empire age. I have only played games set in and around that time. The major events of the movie are not "the" major events. Those events are major to the movies but only part of what is going on in the galaxy at that time.

Isn't that another way of saying that you're ignorant of the EU and therefore are judging the time between 4-6, as it's the only thing you know?

You're say you like it more than any other era, but now you say you have no knowledge of the other era's.

That's like saying Honda makes the best car in the world! I love Honda! I've always driven a Honda! They rock...... I've never driven anything but a Honda.

The Major events in the movies very well ARE the Major events of those time frames. There are other events but those are the biggies. There's not secret events happening in the background that are bigger than the ones we know of. Or if they are, they're just that. So secret that noone knows about them so they're not that major. lol.

If the only thing you know is eps 4-6. You've never read/know stuff from the Pre-empire, or the post empire era's. How do you know it's your favorite era, other than by default of never having experienced anything else?

[ninjabunny]

The force is not the end all be all for me when it comes to Star Wars. For me the old republic the prequels and all others that take place before or after the movies is boring. That time line that universe is what drew me to Star Wars not Jedi and the force it was a small part of what made it cool. For me it's number three or four on what makes Star Wars. The force isn't need to make it different then Star Trek or fire fly those are all one of a kind and not a cheap version. Star Wars is made by its whole not a part that is enlarged by the masses as being the main focus and draw.

[ninjabunny]

Dec 2, 2013 4:25:32 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Dec 2, 2013 4:14:45 GMT ninjabunny said:

My wife has never seen or read anything outside of episodes 4,5,&6 . I have only read fix and fan fix set in the galactic empire age. I have only played games set in and around that time. The major events of the movie are not "the" major events. Those events are major to the movies but only part of what is going on in the galaxy at that time.

Isn't that another way of saying that you're ignorant of the EU and therefore are judging the time between 4-6, as it's the only thing you know?

You're say you like it more than any other era, but now you say you have no knowledge of the other era's.

That's like saying Honda makes the best car in the world! I love Honda! I've always driven a Honda! They rock...... I've never driven anything but a Honda.

The Major events in the movies very well ARE the Major events of those time frames. There are other events but those are the biggies. There's not secret events happening in the background that are bigger than the ones we know of. Or if they are, they're just that. So secret that noone knows about them so they're not that major. lol.

If the only thing you know is eps 4-6. You've never read/know stuff from the Pre-empire, or the post empire era's. How do you know it's your favorite era, other than by default of never having experienced anything else?

i know of the others, I can read and look at summarys they did not appeal to me so your pos is moot.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 4:28:39 GMT ninjabunny said:

Dec 2, 2013 4:25:32 GMT Sci-Fi said:

Isn't that another way of saying that you're ignorant of the EU and therefore are judging the time between 4-6, as it's the only thing you know?

You're say you like it more than any other era, but now you say you have no knowledge of the other era's.

That's like saying Honda makes the best car in the world! I love Honda! I've always driven a Honda! They rock...... I've never driven anything but a Honda.

The Major events in the movies very well ARE the Major events of those time frames. There are other events but those are the biggies. There's not secret events happening in the background that are bigger than the ones we know of. Or if they are, they're just that. So secret that noone knows about them so they're not that major. lol.

If the only thing you know is eps 4-6. You've never read/know stuff from the Pre-empire, or the post empire era's. How do you know it's your favorite era, other than by default of never having experienced anything else?

i know of the others, I can read and look at summarys they did not appeal to me so your pos is moot.

No, from what you've said here, my post is dead on. You've said "My wife has never seen or read anything outside of episodes 4,5,&6 . I have only read fix and fan fix set in the galactic empire age."

You are ignorant to what you're classifying as boring or not as good as what you've seen. Going back to the Honda analogy, it's like you've driven the Honda all your life. Love the Honda. You've seen other cars on the road. Maybe read an article about them in a magazine or something, but never bothered to drive one as you consider what you know, to be the height of all things cars.

Sorry but "I can look at Summary's so I know everything and I'm right" isn't any sort of argument that holds water. You're judging stuff off of other people's word while refusing to make your own decisions for yourself.

If you'd read some of the EU stuff on both sides, and it wasn't for you, you could make statements as to your personal preference regarding them. At present though, you're judging books/comics/the EU in general by the covers and declairing your opinion based on that. The EU stuff could be the most awesome stuff EVER, but you, at this point, don't know.

[ninjabunny]

No your wrong, you have made the fatal flaw of assuming that because I have only read those that I know nothing of the others.

[ninjabunny]

A told you I can read a summary and over review and know if it peeks my interest or not. If your assuming one can not make a choice based on an over view of something, that is a logical fallacy. This is done every day via trailers for movies and tv shows and summarys and over tries for comics and books. If those things do not peek my interest then yes they are boring to me, and I no way makese saying those things are unimpressive to me any less true.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 5:17:03 GMT ninjabunny said:

A told you I can read a summary and over review and know if it peeks my interest or not. If your assuming one can not make a choice based on an over view of something, that is a logical fallacy. This is done every day via trailers for movies and tv shows and summarys and over tries for comics and books. If those things do not peek my interest then yes they are boring to me, and I no way makese saying those things are unimpressive to me any less true.

You're making an assumption based on partial information.

If you've only ever experienced stuff in the 'Empire era' then you don't know if the stuff out side of it is good or not. Nor can you accurately judge the impact of the Jedi on Star Wars, based on the few years, out of 1000s that there were only a couple of them running around.

You're trying to speak authoritatively on stuff you have professed ignorance of.

You haven't read the books. Summary's don't give you the detail. The nuance. The full story. Just like a movie trailer might show you all the 'good' parts of a crappy movie, a summary of a book may not accurately describe the intricacies of the book.

You're very much judging dozens if not hundreds of books via summary and discounting era's of the Star Wars universe, with out witnessing them personally.

[colonel wolfe]

My knowledge of the Jedi is from playing KOTOR....

[ninjabunny]

You're being very elitist right now. What I read here is I am not allowed to like or dislike something because it doesn't peek my interest. That I must read them before I say they didn't peek my interest.
I am not speak authoritatively I am speaking about my opinion if anything you are the one speaking from an authority position. You made a claim that anyone setting down to to Star Wars has read something outside the movies you were shown it was wrong. You are stating that the force is Star Wars and that is the appeal it clearly is not for me. Now you claim that if something didn't peek my interest enough to make me read it that I can not say it bores me.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 5:59:43 GMT ninjabunny said:

You're being very elitist right now. What I read here is I am not allowed to like or dislike something because it doesn't peek my interest. That I must read them before I say they didn't peek my interest.
I am not speak authoritatively I am speaking about my opinion if anything you are the one speaking from an authority position. You made a claim that anyone setting down to to Star Wars has read something outside the movies you were shown it was wrong. You are stating that the force is Star Wars and that is the appeal it clearly is not for me. Now you claim that if something didn't peek my interest enough to make me read it that I can not say it bores me.

You were speaking authoritatively.

"Again I like the empiral age more then any other"  But you've not read nor played any other.

"I must disagree about the movie timeline, this by far is they best time to set the game."  You just declared that you disagree and that the movie timeline is not just the best, but by far the best time to set the game, but you've not read nor have knowledge of the others.

Just so we don't quibble you pointed out you've ONLY Played in that narrow window of time and have only read stuff from that period of time.

"My wife has never seen or read anything outside of episodes 4,5,&6 . I have only read fix and fan fix set in the galactic empire age. I have only played games set in and around that time. The major events of the movie are not "the" major events. Those events are major to the movies but only part of what is going on in the galaxy at that time. "

You then later claimed "i know of the others, I can read and look at summarys they did not appeal to me so your pos is moot. "

But before you said you'd not read any of them. I pointed out that summaries don't give you the full experience to make such sweeping statments as "I must disagree about the movie timeline, this by far is they best time to set the game."   Not 'I think" but "This is by far the best time to set the game" Statement of fact. Not opinion. and strong statement of fact as well.



You can have your opinion on if things look interesting to you or not, but the previous statements in this thread are not all your opinions. You've made strong statements of fact that you have later come around to claim they are your opinions, opinions that you've nothing to base them off of, other than reviews of others, not your own personal experience.

Don't forget the quoted part of the thread where you pointed out neither you nor your wife have read any of the EU stuff. Just stuff from the Empire Era, that you claimed was simply the best time to set the game. By far.

You can like or dislike what ever you want. I'm simply pointing out that your strong feelings on the matter aren't based on any sort of personal experience with the entire swath of the Star Wars universe, just a very narrow subset of a few decades out of a time line that stretches tens of thousands of years. More over, that opinion is based on reviews of others, not original thought and review of your own.

You can't drive one car ever, proclaim it to be the best car ever, refuse to drive any others, and claim what you 'know' to be true, simply is true, by aspect of you having made a claim, in ignorance of all other aspects of cars. Or in this case, books/fiction/games, the EU of SW.

[ninjabunny]

I am right about the timeline no matte how you cut it, this debate proves it like I or not. Every one has seen the movies and that is still the only god damn point I have even remotely shown to be fact. The rest are my opinion and read clearly as such . Stop being a dick and twisting meaning an intent of words, it is rude and frankly a good way to piss people off.
I said it was the best time line and showed why. You claimed that anyone setting down to game Star Wars has seen something outside of the empirical age, once again I showed that wasn't true. Now unless you can show me point fucking blank that everyone who likes Star Wars has one fucking area they all agree on reading playing in and generally like, the movies are the only time line we know all players have seen. Everything else you quoted is all my opinion and is how it is read.

[Sci-Fi]

Dec 2, 2013 7:09:48 GMT ninjabunny said:

I am right about the timeline no matte how you cut it, this debate proves it like I or not. Every one has seen the movies and that is still the only god damn point I have even remotely shown to be fact. The rest are my opinion and read clearly as such . Stop being a dick and twisting meaning an intent of words, it is rude and frankly a good way to piss people off.
I said it was the best time line and showed why. You claimed that anyone setting down to game Star Wars has seen something outside of the empirical age, once again I showed that wasn't true. Now unless you can show me point fucking blank that everyone who likes Star Wars has one fucking area they all agree on reading playing in and generally like, the movies are the only time line we know all players have seen. Everything else you quoted is all my opinion and is how it is read.

You can swear all you want. Your posts are here in black and white. I didn't make up anything. I quoted you directly.

"I must disagree about the movie timeline, this by far is they best time to set the game."  That's not an opinion. It's you stating something as fact.

Just like "I am right about the timeline no matte how you cut it"  Another statement of fact. Not opinion. It wasn't "I think I'm right" or "In my opinion I'm right" you stated straight up that, Fact: You were right no matter how it's cut.

No. It's YOUR OPINION. Not a fact. Nor is your opinion universal, as I don't think it's the best time to set the game. By simply my own position disagreeing with you, shows that your opinion is not universal.

More over, not 'everyone' has seen the movies. Have most people seen them? Sure. Not everyone though. One of my wife's best friends hasn't seen any of them.

You're stating things as facts. You're stating your opinion as fact. Your opinion has been shown, by your own words to be severely limited in scope. You've stated directly you've never read out side of the Empire Era nor played out side the Empire Era. So you simply don't know. Could be the most amazing mind blowing thing ever. Could totally suck. You don't know. You're making assumptions based on your limited knowledge.

Also, you're putting words into my mouth. In this post you say I claim that anyone sitting down to game Star Wars has seen something out side the Empire Era, and you showed it wasn't true.

Did I?

No. I posed a question. "As for the Movie timeline. yeah people have watched the movies, but who, sitting down to play an RPG set in Star Wars universe hasn't read some of the EU, be it books, comics, games, etc.?" 

It's possible that people haven't. I don't think it's incredibly common.

So.. be all fussy and stuff if you want. Throw around your god damn's and your dicks, your fucks and what not. You still don't possess a point of reference to declare anything the 'best' if you're severely limited in the topic you're claiming to profess things about.  You're claiming to have solid knowledge based out of limited knowledge pool in the topic. The topic itself could be anything. You could be claiming that Cream filled donuts are the best donuts ever, because you like cream filled donuts. You've heard of Raspberry filled but you don't think you'd like that, even if you haven't tried it, so Cream filled are the best. Period. Not only have you done that, but you're not insisting you're right about the cream filled donut, even after admitting you've never tried the other kinds, based off of just what some others may have said about the other kinds of donuts you've not tried yourself.

So, instead of swearing at me, pause, and read what you have typed and chill out a bit.

It's your opinion, based on limited facts, that the Empire Era is a good time to play.

I, having read/watched/played, consumed many many different Era's of Star Wars, find other Era's more fun to play.

Some people, having also read/watched/played, consumed many many different Era's of Star wars MAY agree with you. Or they might agree with me.

Those are our opinions. None of them are "FACT" because they're just opinions.

[Jaymz]

The X-wing series of novels are an excellent example of no force yet still having a very star wars feel. Star Wars isn't JUST about the force....it's about epic adventure. Regardless of the force. Star Trek never gave me that feel, nor did any other sci-fi franchise.

Now for a person who's preference is force users then yes, the Galactic Empire/Rebellion is quite likely not very enjoyable for you where as Prequel, Old Republic and New Jedi Order is likely more up your alley. This is where you seem to fall but I will point ou that it is you saying Star Wars isn't Star Wars without the force. That too is an opinion. One I disagree with.

[jorel]

I think Star Wars is as much about an interesting spread of Races and Characters as it has anything to do with the force. The force is one small corner of a massive universe. There could easily be Star Wars without the force.

[joshuagoliath]

Soooooo, chopping a lot of this thread into pieces, and ignoring them... (simply so I don't get pulled into the argument and turn into an asshole)

While I enjoy games in the Empire era, it's usually as a mercenary game, or bounty-hunters...

But, I have to say that one of my favorite eras to play in is the OLD Republic, during the Sith Invasions, or there-abouts. As force-users or not, TONS of options to play with. Both sides had tons of non-force using personnel, so there are all sorts of things you can do. We have various things mapped out in the EU, but there is still a lot of areas that are blank, so you can be instrumental in the capture/freeing of worlds, or hell, entire solar systems! This is perfectly fine, because so much has been left unwritten. And, you can do all of it as a Jedi, Sith, or any non-Force character! You can have entire groups that are non-Force, and even use that as a key thing, because both sides had groups like that (because there was no force powers used for the enemy to be able to sense)

[Jaymz]

Dec 2, 2013 18:12:33 GMT joshuagoliath said:

Soooooo, chopping a lost of this thread into pieces, and ignoring them... (simply so I don't get pulled into the argument and turn into an asshole)

What do you mean get turned INTO an asshole?

[joshuagoliath]

Dec 2, 2013 18:25:36 GMT Jaymz said:

Dec 2, 2013 18:12:33 GMT joshuagoliath said:

Soooooo, chopping a lost of this thread into pieces, and ignoring them... (simply so I don't get pulled into the argument and turn into an asshole)

What do you mean get turned INTO an asshole?

You've seen me in my "I'm a jerk" mode.. you haven't seen the "I'm an asshole, *&^% you" mode...few have. I try to keep it locked away, because even I don't like that side of me

[joshuagoliath]

Dec 2, 2013 16:11:22 GMT jorel said:

I think Star Wars is as much about an interesting spread of Races and Characters as it has anything to do with the force. The force is one small corner of a massive universe. There could easily be Star Wars without the force.

Except, young Padawan, that the "Force" was a direct influence on roughly 75% of the Galactic History..

The Jedi, who were the interstellar keepers of peace (and the backbone of the Old Republic)- The Force
The Jedi/Sith split- the Force
The Sith invasions- the Force
(lots and lots more that has to do with the Force)
Palpatine's rise and takeover- the Force (it was as much about the Sith defeating the Jedi as about his personal power)
The fall of Anakin into Darth- the Force
The rise of Luke to take down the Empire- the Force...
The ability of Luke to turn darkside (and turn himself back to the light!!) so he could find and destroy Palpatine's cloning vats/spare bodies- The Force
The rebuilding of the Jedi Academy- The Force


Do we need to keep going? I'm not super familiar with the EU, but, pretty much every major event is tied to the Force